Was the Bible Changed by the Illuminati?

Submitted by Khomar on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 11:20

Christianity

This is a very good discussion of this topic, a subject that has been raised frequently as the Illuminati and the New World Order are coming into view.

Katherine Mon, 10/18/2010 - 13:51

I mean no disrespect, but I feel that those who believe that "what Jesus taught" was not as important as "who he was" are sadly mistaken, for Jesus was a Master Teacher and he taught us that we are all the children of God. The illuminati have perpetrated the greatest lie in history by creating a religion called "Christianity" that dilutes the teachings of Jesus Christ to being "unimportant".
Jesus said, "Do not worship me..." He stated and demonstrated we are to revere the "Heavenly Father (his name for God the Divine Spirit)." Through condemnation of all beliefs contrary to their own, Christian
religious leaders will mistakenly twist Jesus' statement, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father, but by me." The religious are unable to hear what Jesus was truly saying. Jesus did not say bow and worship him; but in this verse he simply gave the example of his life as an example of being the only way to communicate with Spirit. How did Jesus connect with Spirit? He did so from within his being.

"Stand up for what you believe in. Even if you stand alone."
~ Sophie Magdalena Scholl
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."
~ Ron Paul
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
~ Mahatma Gandhi

Khomar Mon, 10/18/2010 - 18:15

I believe that what Jesus taught is vital because of who He is. Otherwise, there is no point in listening to Him at all because He claimed to be God.

Where did Jesus say "do not worship me"? I cannot recall a passage wherein He said that. The closest I could find was this one:

And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.
(Mar 10:17-18 ESV)

But note that Jesus did not correct the man and tell him not to call Him good. He was just making the man think about what he was saying. If he was truly saying that Jesus was the Good Teacher, then he would be saying that Jesus is God. Only God is truly righteous and holy: good.

There is a third vital aspect to Jesus that must not be forgotten: what He did. He died for our sins on the cross, paying the penalty for all of the wrongs that we have done.

Jesus did live an example for us. He demonstrated how man was supposed to live in communion with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God. The power does not come from within us but from the power of the Holy Spirit of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

Katherine Tue, 10/19/2010 - 05:45

Hi Khomar, hope you & yours are all settled into your new home!

The Orthodox Church, supported by the Emperor Constantine - primarily for political reasons, was powerful enough to be able to define what early Christians were to believe.Those who questioned the early Church's beliefs were declared "heretics." Orthodox Christianity thus prevailed over the voices of the Gnostics, and has continued ever since to define Christianity's belief system.

You may have heard of a farmer named Muhammad Ali (al-Samman), who while looking for softer soil for fertilizer in a cave, found an earthen jar filled with thirteen books written on papyrus and bound in leather. He took them to an antiquities dealer and, as had long been rumored, we now know that other Gospels were written, as well as other very early Christian writings. Careful research has declared them authentic. They raise questions, which have the potential to free Christianity from centuries of, for many, unacceptable positions.

Gnostics believe Christ's message was more spiritual than religious. The place to find God is within (Luke 17:21), not in external dogma or the dictates of the church. Their interpretation is that we can experience God, not by a set of correct beliefs or creeds, but by seeking.

http://gnosticschristians.com/

The fact remains though, imo, that people put too much emphasis on words, when true spirituality is more simplistic. For me, it is - Love the Son, worship the Father, and accept the Holy Spirit into your heart. The Holy Spirit is pure energy. When a revelation touches your heart and fills your body with this purest of energies, you'll know that you are in the presence of the Holy Spirit. You'll know in your heart by that presence, what is true.
So, even though your beliefs are probably politically correct about
what is stated in the Bible, I feel led to find out for myself what is
contained in those other early Christian writings before I will accept that Jesus was not a shining example of exactly what I can strive to be, as a child of God.

Khomar Tue, 10/19/2010 - 10:26

I think you need to define the word "authentic". Many of these so-called Gospels have been shown to written two to three centuries after the life of Jesus, and yet they claim to have been written by eyewitnesses of him. While they are authentic documents of antiquity, their claims of authorship are dubious at best.

More importantly though is that they are not in sync with the Old Testament writings. The New Testament is grounded in the doctrines and truth of the Old Testament -- they form a continuous picture of who God is and how He interacts with His people. While the manifestation of the Holy Spirit is different in the New Testament, you see Him at work in the Old Testament as well. (And yes, I said "Him" because the Holy Spirit is not just power, He is a person. When we have the Holy Spirit within us, we have the very presence of God inside us.)

The Old Testament canon was set long before the councils on the New Testament canon, and its books have been confirmed by the Dead Sea Scrolls as being accurate to the original manuscripts. The message of the Gospel, that we are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, is clearly laid out in the book of Isaiah:

He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised,
and we esteemed him not.
Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned--every one--to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
(Isa 53:3-6 ESV)

It is true that much has been added or manipulated by the so-called church since the writing of the New Testament, but this is the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ -- that He died for our sins and by placing our faith in Him, we can be saved. I agree, in a sense, that we put too much emphasis on the written Word when we ignore the fact that God can still speak today. However, the Bible was given as a foundation upon which the Church (those who believe in Jesus Christ, no particular denomination) is to be built. It is the measuring stick against which all doctrines, revelations, and visions should be tested. This is why God gave us a written Word in addition to the Living Word, so we could test the spirits to see if they are true.

Katherine Tue, 10/19/2010 - 23:55

I just had another thought...

You said, "Many of these so-called Gospels have been shown to have been written two to three centuries after the life of Jesus..."

I believe that scientific proof, like carbon dating and the like, actually support the correct dating of those Gospels and other early Christian manuscripts which are in question.

Without those primary sources, those named Gnostics were portrayed as not being true disciples, to some as not even being Christians. Throughout history they were slandered for denying "reality," as being absolute "dualist" and" idealist." The elimination of their writings was almost successful, but thanks to some monks who hid the forbidden works in a cave in Egypt, near a village called Nag Hammadi, the Gnostic Gospels and writings can now speak for themselves.

And keep in mind that the early church, supported by the Emperor Constantine - primarily for political reasons, has been shown to have been begun at least 60 years after the life of Christ, and was powerful enough to be able to define what early Christians were to believe, while those who questioned the early Church's beliefs were declared "heretics." Thus, Orthodox Christianity prevailed over the voices of the Gnostics, and has continued ever since to define Christianity's belief system. Was this an early illuminati manipulation, orchestrated to take the people's personal spiritual power away from them, in order to keep secret the intimacy and guidance that Christ's full gnostic teachings held, and to keep that special spiritual mysticism only for the clergy and others in power at that time to own and control? I think it was.

Khomar Wed, 10/20/2010 - 00:34

I would be curious to read the research on the dating of those manuscripts. Do you have a link? Also, which Gnostic gospels are we talking about here?

As far as church history, Emperor Constantine did not take over until the end of the third century. The church was already well established and threatening the Roman religions when he came to power, and he fused the two creating the Roman Catholicism.

Most of the books of the New Testament are believed to have been written with the first forty years following Jesus' incarnation and prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. (Jesus was crucified in A.D. 33). The first book written in the New Testament was actually the book of James which is believed to have been written around 45-50 A.D. The first Gospel is believed to have either been Mark or Matthew with some believing Matthew having been written as early as 50 A.D. given it was written primarily to a Hebrew audience. The last books were written by the apostle John, the last living eye-witness of Jesus, around 85-95 A.D. To get a good idea of what the early church believed following the completion of what we call the New Testament today, you would need to read the writings by Ignatius, Clement, and Polycarp (among others). That early church is vastly different than much of the church we see today with a greater aversion to materialism and wealth, but the essential doctrines are pretty much the same. It was and has always been that we are saved by grace through faith in the sacrificed blood of Jesus Christ, God become flesh.

Katherine Wed, 10/20/2010 - 03:49

I have this link:

http://www.gnosticchristianity.com/

There is a lot of information here, some of which I have already quoted. But I haven't read it all and since I'm not a historian, I'll have to take your word on some of this. What I have quoted feels true in my heart and everything that I've stated from memory is as truthful as I can recall. As I stated before, though, I am pretty well set in my belief system - which is based in about 20 years study of various doctrines, including the Bible (where my study actually goes into my childhood, which is much further back than 20 years, I'm afraid!). I know you are set in yours, as well, so maybe we will have to agree to disagree, but if you (or anyone reading) are interested in learning more about Gnostic Christianity, I hope that I've been helpful.

I've found yet another viewpoint, though as I said above, I'm not a historian, so I would invite any interested reader to take what they need and leave the rest:

Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why
by Bart D. Ehrman
(a New Testament scholar at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill)
The book introduces lay readers to the field of textual criticism of the Bible. Ehrman discusses a number of textual variants that resulted from intentional or accidental manuscript changes during the scriptorium era.
The book describes an early Christian environment in which the books that would later compose the New Testament were copied by hand, mostly by Christian amateurs. Ehrman concludes that various early scribes altered the New Testament texts in order to deemphasize the role of women in the early church, to unify and harmonize the different portrayals of Jesus in the four gospels, and to oppose certain heresies. Ehrman contends that certain widely-held Christian beliefs, such about the divinity of Jesus, are associated not with the original words of scripture but with these later alterations.

Katherine Tue, 10/19/2010 - 06:24

And

Khomar, I have to ask...
You said that Jesus claimed to be God. I know that in John 5:17, Jesus claimed to be continuing the work of the Father. He also called God "My Father", but where exactly did he claim to be God incarnate?

Khomar Tue, 10/19/2010 - 10:12

Perhaps the best example is found in John 8.

Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad." So the Jews said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."
(Joh 8:56-58 ESV)

His phrasing "I am" is a direct reference back to God's revelation of His name to Moses in Exodus.

Then Moses said to God, "If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' what shall I say to them?" God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
(Exo 3:13-14 ESV)

Note the response to Jesus' proclamation:

So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
(Joh 8:59 ESV)

They definitely knew what He was saying.

Katherine Tue, 10/19/2010 - 12:56

You make good points and what you say definitely makes me think! This a question I have been wrestling with for some time. I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior when I was a teen and again almost a decade ago. At the more recent instance, my body actually seemed to lose weight and I felt as if I was floating. I assume it was the weight of my sins leaving my body, as I was forgiven of them. Still, I want to believe that as a child of God, I can learn to "walk on water", as Jesus did, and perform miracles or change my reality by my faith and my intention. I have, as I mentioned in another post, through the power of love, affected the weather and I have, also through the power of love, affected temporary "healings" by holding my hands on an area of pain in the bodies of some of my family members. I know I was just the vessel in all cases; the power of God's love worked through me, but can you see the dilemma of my belief system? My husband feels, as you do and most Christians do, that Jesus was God incarnate, and he tellls me not to worry so much about it because God knows my heart and Jesus loves me. I love them as well, but I still want to believe that Jesus is more my brother than my Lord. I still have a dilemma of faith.

Khomar Tue, 10/19/2010 - 12:59

I came across this sermon a couple weeks ago that I think might be helpful. This is just a ten minute excerpt, but I think this will address exactly what you are wrestling with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njt7vXw6X1c

I believe that we can walk on water, if God wills it, through the power of the Holy Spirit.

I encourage you to read John 14-17, the last night Jesus was with His disciples. He talks a lot about the things you are talking about, and I think you will find encouragement there.

Keep pursuing God and listening for His voice, but remember that the Bible is our foundation and most often God speaks to us through the written Word. The Holy Spirit will bring out certain verses and call others to mind as you read to guide you.

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.
(Mat 7:7-8 ESV)

Katherine Tue, 10/19/2010 - 21:11

Thank you so much Khomar, for the film and the Bible verses. They really did my heart good to see and read. They reinforced a personal belief for me, though, which may have been an unintended benefit! The film's introduction stated, "While there is a dangerous movement toward mysticism without the framework of solid Biblical doctrine, there is an equally dangerous threat that attempts to remove the intimacy and guidance of God from His Church."
That says a lot, and it is something you don't hear stated too often in the Christian doctrine, which, in my experience, seems to usually want to keep the mysticism aspect for the clergy and kept away from the masses. It is true and it stands to reason that the intimacy and guidance of God may be lost on one who is without the framework of solid doctrine, but I left the word Biblical out here on purpose, because I believe that there are many paths to God, and that journey is a deeply personal one. I believe that the one true God sent many messengers and prophets to spread His Word, and this has been accomplished through many dfferent religions and holy books throughout the centuries. I simply cannot accept that my loving God would bannish entire races of people to hell, who have had a religion other than Christianity to guide them in their journey back to Him!
Regardless, I imagine that you are as set in your belief system as I am in mine, and I don't think that either of us is going to change the other's mind. So, as my husband tells me, it doesn't really matter what you believe, just BELIEVE! And I believe I will continue to do things my way, which means - Love the Son, Worship the Father, and accept the Holy Spirit into my heart. Thanks again for your input, though, Khomar. Imo, it was exactly what I needed today!

Khomar Wed, 10/20/2010 - 00:40

One thought on the many paths: I do not know what happens to those who have never heard the Gospel. The Bible does say this:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
(Rom 1:18-20 ESV)

So there is a revelation of God to the whole world by which they are held to account. The Bible is filled with examples of non-Jews who were God-fearing people, so it is possible that God has a plan for those who have never heard about Jesus Christ. I rest on the fact that God is just, but He is also loving and merciful.

The real key is what about those of us who do know about Jesus Christ. The answer here is very plain:

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
(Joh 14:6 ESV)

So while we can speculate about whether or not there is salvation for those who have never heard about the Bible, what we are responsible for is what we know. As you said, it really comes down to belief, but ultimately it comes down to this: do you believe God? Do you believe that He sent His Son in the flesh to die for your sins? Do you believe that He has sent His Word (living and written) to guide us into all truth?

Katherine Wed, 10/20/2010 - 02:41

The truths in the Bible are not unchanging and cannot be looked upon as immoveable. New revelations can bring about new truths. Thus, the Living Word of God is not only fluid, it is subject to interpretation.
To be interspiritual (all paths lead to God), to be believe we are all the children of God (that divinity is in all), and to embrace mysticism is to be a 'rejuvenated Christian' - one who follows "another gospel and another Jesus".

2 Corinthians 11:4
(New International Version)
4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

Hosea 1:10 They will be called 'sons of the living God'.

Romans 9:26 They will be called 'sons of the living God'.

Romans 8:19 the creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.

Psalm 82:6 I, said, 'you are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

Romans 8:14 Those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Malachi 2:10 have we not all one Father? Did not God create us?

John 1:12-13 Yet to all who received, to those who believed on His name, He gave them the right to become children of God children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. (For God was their Father)

We need to realize that the Hebrew language is a picture language. Words in the Hebrew language come from pictures, like hieroglyphics in Egypt. For example, the Hebrew word for"believe" is aman. That is what we tag onto the end of our prayers when we close them. We say, "In Jesus name, Amen," which means, "I believe it."
"Believe" in the Hebrew language means "to lean upon." Picture a
person leaning upon a secure object, an object that can hold them up. This is the meaning of the word believe.

Khomar Wed, 10/20/2010 - 03:21

The 1 Corinthians passage, if you read it in context, is actually being sarcastic. He is chastising them for embracing another gospel instead of clinging to the one that he had taught them. Consider is other passage:

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
(Gal 1:8-12 ESV)

You are absolutely correct in regard to the meaning of belief. It is complete trust in God to save us and to empower and guide us. We are indeed to become sons of God and heirs with Christ. But the power is not within ourselves. The power is from God Himself who will transform our sinful bodies into bodies of righteous by the same power that raised Jesus from the dead.

Katherine Wed, 10/20/2010 - 20:52

He is chastising them for embracing another gospel instead of clinging to the one that he had taught them.

There is no larger source of error, than to judge of persons and opinions by our own prejudices. How common is it for persons to judge of their own religious character, by the opinions and maxims of the world around them!

You see, Paul was human, and as such, was subject to the human frailty of self rightousness, or simple human pride. And Paul wrote over half of the books in the New Testament - the majority of those, imo, being not much more than personalized, early "form letters" to the existing churches of the day. When you add to that information, the fact that those texts "were copied by hand, mostly by early Christian scribes, who altered the New Testament texts in order to deemphasize the role of women in the early church, to unify and harmonize the different portrayals of Jesus in the four gospels, and to oppose certain heresies" - the validity of those texts begins to wane. The Bible remains a wonderful guidebook for those who are on a journey to return to God, but they do not appear to be the perfect texts that you portray them to be. So, as for me, I will continue to seek God, but I will continue my search, looking to many sources, while using discernment.

Katherine Mon, 10/18/2010 - 11:51

Would Jesus recognize his teachings in traditional accounts of his ministry? Jesus would recognize some of his teachings, but he would be heartsick because he stood for something that is utterly missing in those accounts.
What is missing in records of Jesus' teachings is fundamentally important to everyone - Christian or not. Jesus revealed a natural principle that justifies a nonjudgmental system of logic that goes hand in hand with our present judgmental system.

In this enlightened consciousness we are personally empowered to resolve all problems and as Paul said "live the good life as from the beginning He [God] had meant us to live it." (Eph 2:10)

Evidence that Jesus taught a process of reasoning that could expand consciousness surfaces in Jn 8:31-32 jbv, where he says, "If you make my word your home, you will learn the truth and the truth will set you free [word or will of God is the English translation of the Greek term logos, which refers to the logic or reasoning of God]." And in Rm 12:2 (rsv) Paul said "do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind..."

The Gnosis, or reasoning process, that Gnostic Christianity introduces, does not contradict Jesus' spiritually-centered public teachings. It documents what scholars refer to as Jesus' oral or logos/logic tradition, which he taught in private (Mk 4:33-34). These teachings elevate our reasoning mind to that of the will/reasoning of God. In this renewed mind, our reasoning supports spiritual values. This is the truth that can set us free. For when mind and spirit seek the same ends (syzygy) doing "on earth as it is in heaven" will no longer be an idealistic goal, it will be a practical reality. (Matt 6:10)

http://www.gnosticchristianity.com/

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