Militia Roundup

Khomar's picture

This story is still breaking, so details are still scarce. But it appears that there was a major raid of the Michigan militia in the last couple days.

Khomar's picture

Another Press Release

Christian Militia Suspects at Mich., Ind. Hearings

Not guilty pleas have been entered in Michigan on behalf of eight of nine members of a Christian militia that prosecutors claim plotted to kill police officers and kick-start a violent revolution.

Notice how they were arrested for plotting an attack. As BigT said, thought crime?

Also, now they are a "Christian militia". Be prepared to see Christianity pushed forward more and more in the coming months as the new boogieman.

BigT's picture

I just read an article about this issue, and there were some interesting things in it.
First, it seems that there is an allegation that they were "planning some things" that weren't very nice, but we don't really know for sure what "planning" really means in this case, so it's nebulous.

However, the charges are listed as "attempting" to do these things.
Now, I don't think that talking or thinking about doing something is the same as "attempting" to do something.
Another interesting quote in the article from the prosecutor was that they suspected that there was going to be a "violent reconnaissance trip" in April, which the prosecutor said was why the raid occurred.
The terms "violent" and "reconnaissance" don't go together. A reconnaissance trip is not a violent activity. It's an observational activity.

It smacks of "thought crime" to me.

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2 Chronicles 7:14

Khomar's picture

Yes, that is exactly what it sounds like. I wonder if that would actually stand up in court.

Khomar's picture

Here is an interesting write-up that talks about the nation-wide response to the situation among the militia groups.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/03/hutaree-raid-militia-...

Having received briefings from local formations in the intervening hours, it is plain that the best units in the southeast Michigan Area of Operations and contiguous areas understood what was happening almost immediately, that it was targeted at the Hutaree (who they had all been shunning for very good reasons for some time) and used their proximity to try to understand the OPFOR's movements and playbook. Some people were monitoring federal, state and local communications, others, unarmed and dressed in civvy's circulated around, testing the federal perimeters, noting force levels, agencies, armament. Testing, prodding, notetaking, learning. By doing this they learned far more about what was going on than the media knew at any given point. Some of this information I passed on to news organizations to help them ask the Feds the right questions.

The interesting thing here is what BigT was talking about: mistakes. Has the federal government, by conducting this campaign in the way that they did, they have given all of the militia groups something supremely valuable: intelligence. They now have a better view of tactics, deployment, and strategies that the government might use in future operations.

I have asked for an intelligence estimate of what it took to mount this huge operation in three states against a piddling number of people. Preliminary guesses are in the many hundreds, if not low thousands, of federal, state and local cops. The raiders were backed up by armored vehicles and air cover. All to arrest 7, count 'em, 7 individuals for allegedly distributing destructive devices -- pipe bombs.

Now, I admit that it takes a hell of a lot more folks to arrest someone as opposed to merely killing him, but the fact of the matter is that the same risk-aversion we see in the U.S. military these days is even more true of federal law enforcement.

If what they wanted to do was overawe us with this massive show of force, the fact of the matter is that it just demonstrated how overly-concerned they are about putting their own asses on the line and taking the risk of not living until retirement.

Very interesting.

BigT's picture

That stuff is "ongoing

That stuff is "ongoing intel". It's always monitored.
Every action and response is observed and logged, for intel use.
They monitor the militias, and the militias monitor them.

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2 Chronicles 7:14

Khomar's picture

As I scanned the Google News headlines, I was greeted with this article from Fox News:

Michigan Militia Group Preparing for Antichrist, Web Site Says

The Michigan-based Christian militia group raided by the FBI over the weekend is preparing for battle with the Antichrist, according to a Web site purportedly run by the group.

. . .

Hutaree was named in a list of 512 so-called active "patriot" groups in the U.S. last year by the Southern Poverty Law Center in its spring intelligence report on extremist organizations. Of those groups, 127 were militias, including Hutaree. The remaining groups, according to SPLC, engage in "groundless conspiracy theorizing" or advocate anti-government doctrines.

Yep, you definitely called that one, BigT (not that there was any doubt). I wonder if we fall into one of those patriot groups. If not, we should! :-D

Anyway, the one thing that jumps out to me in this is the demonizing of committed Christian groups. Now personally, I do not agree with the Hutaree's stance on fighting with arms (no offense, BigT). I personally am leaning heavily toward pacifist with the possible exception of self defense, but I greatly respect their strong stance against tyranny. But ever since 9/11 when they started talking about "religious fundamentalism", I knew this day was coming. I do not know much about this group, and they may very well have some messed up views. But the "problems" listed in the article would probably apply to a lot of peace-loving Christians.

It is time to stay on our toes as the end game is most definitely afoot. May good triumph again and hold back the forces of darkness for a while longer.

BigT's picture

Definitely all the "freedom

Definitely all the "freedom groups" are "on the lists".
The most visible recent example was the MIAC report, but it goes WAY deeper than that. And MIAC admitted that it also relied on SPLC for it's "hit list". Now there's a new updated SPLC list going around, basically the same as it was, but some more added.
My "rule of thumb" is that if you ever wonder if you are on a list, you're already on 10 lists.

I've been on various lists for as long as I can remember. I was REALLY on some lists in the 1990s.
My militia group was ranked #5 on the SPLC list.
We were a bit disappointed, since we were trying for #1, but #5 was ok.
We actually had a visit from the FBI, and I also heard thru the grapevine that the FBI was "asking around" about me. The first time that happens, it gives you a real sick feeling in the pit of your stomach, but you get over it. Then, it's not a big deal after that.
I read SPLC reports which detailed things that happened at our meetings and events. We knew everybody at the meetings and events. There were moles in the group. There were moles that were the commanders of some militia groups, including one of the big ones. Alot of high-drama and intrigue going on in those days.

When the FBI district supervisor came to have a meeting with our militia, they were pretty nice. But they had a security team located around the area, hidden from view. But, so did we. Heh!
Anyway, they told us that they thought it was not bad to have a local militia group, but they were concerned about "people going off violently, which could be a danger to the public". Our response was, "That's funny. We have the same concerns about you. The difference is that we haven't burned-down any churches full of people lately, nor shot any unarmed mothers holding their babies."
That pretty well shut them up, because it was true.

I've been out of the militia for years now. But it was a very interesting time.

We were a Christian group, and I do believe that there is a particular focus on Christian freedom groups.
And that focus will intensify as time moves forward.

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2 Chronicles 7:14

BigT's picture

I know some of the boys up there, and I know Mark Koernke too.
From the initial reading of the press releases I did, this was an ADL/SPLC initiated op.
Most of the militia attacks by Federal law enforcement have been initiated by them.
They DO control the FBI policy, and that is not speculation.
Notice that the local LE has no problems with the militia, and actually works with them. But, the FEDS are out for their blood. This is a very key indicator.
It's a very similar pattern that also occurred during the 1990s.

I think an investigation needs to be held, to find out why the FBI is relying on the ADL/SPLC for their policy actions.
Not that we don't KNOW why. Of course we know why. But it needs to be revealed so that people can see.

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2 Chronicles 7:14

krmaya's picture

Don't you everr get the sense we just plain ol' need to start over?
Deep breath...so much to fix in a system that's way past broken. I mean you're a mechanic. If this was an engine you'd junk it and get one that works....

BigT's picture

Yep.
That's really a very complicated question, but basically I think that Ron Paul has the right idea about getting back to the Constitution.
It immediately comes down to "what is starting over?"
And that brings up the whole discussion about anarchy and all the movements through the political spectrum and political cycles, which have various pros and cons.
So it gets very complex, very quickly.

My feeling is that the Constitution is a very good concept, and it is a minarchy which I can live with.
I'm not an anarchist.

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2 Chronicles 7:14

krmaya's picture

I'm not an anarchist either but if I only had 2 choices I pick that over tyranny : )
You're right of course we realistically can't "start over" but I get so damn disgusted that I just want to start my own continent.

BigT's picture

Ah! And there's the rub. It

Ah! And there's the rub.
It used to be that there was someplace else to migrate to, when people wanted to escape tyranny.
Not so any more. That makes it very different now.

As for reality in the political cycle, anarchy is the quickest path to tyranny.
There is no other form which devolves to tyranny as quickly as anarchy.
I know that there are some anarchists out there who think they can "define what the anarchy will be".
Unfortunately, they can't.
The real truth is found at WalMart.
Walk around WalMart for awhile, and ask yourself if this group of people ever heard of a "non-aggression principle" or anything else that these anarchy proponents think is going to happen.
And if there is an intent to steer or control what the anarchy does, then it's not anarchy anymore, and it's somebody deciding "the rules".
What anarchy would be, is what it's always been. A very temporary state of affairs which quickly evolves into one of the other forms, generally a tyranny of the majority or a war lord.

The advantage of the minarchist Constitutional system is that its very existence provides a stable check against such evolution into an unwanted political system. Albeit that there is some compromise to a most minimal form of state, which is an inherent potential danger that must be managed by vigilance.
Nothing is perfect. But I think minarchy with a Constitution such as ours, would provide the most stability with the least intrusion.

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2 Chronicles 7:14

krmaya's picture

You make a very good point Big T ...nicely stated and i have to agree with you after you explained it.

Khomar's picture

Agreed. Compared to our current system of government, a return to truly following the Constitution would almost feel like anarchy, the good sense. There has to be some sort of a foundation to fall back on or society will quickly devolve into power to the strongest.

Thanks for the info above. I had not heard many details about this, but what you say certainly makes sense. I am automatically doubtful of any federal government action -- a sad place to be, but certainly justified.

BigT's picture

I was very active in the 1990s militia movement, and I know some of the older guys from various units. And and the guys from Republic Radio.

The movement was heavily infiltrated,and the SPLC had spies everywhere.

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2 Chronicles 7:14

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