Why I can’t believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture
The most popular theory in Christian circles today is that the Great Tribulation, the reign of the anti-Christ or “the beast”, will be immediately preceded by a “rapture” of all of the Christians in the world thus signifying the beginning of the wrath of God. I too once held this belief, but I have begun to question a lot of the End Times prophesies as I have reading and re-reading the New Testament. I can no longer see adequate Biblical proof to support a pre-tribulation rapture, and the evidence is quite strong for a rapture that takes place at or near the end of the tribulation.
Where does the pre-tribulation theory come from?
Before I go into why I do not believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, it is important to consider where this idea came from. Here are two of the primary passages used to support a pre-tribulation rapture:
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
(1Th 4:16-17 ESV)
So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.
(1Th 5:6-10 ESV)
The idea here is that since Christians are not destined for wrath, God would remove us from the world before He poured out His wrath on the world in the judgments listed in Revelations. I want to point out that this passage also speaks clearly (as do some of the passages below) that there will be a rapture of the Church. The question is not if but when.
This argument for pre-tribulation seems further strengthened by the promise to the church in Philadelphia in Revelations.
Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie--behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet and they will learn that I have loved you. Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.
(Rev 3:9-10 ESV)
There are a couple important points to consider here. The last passage is directed toward a single church out of the seven churches that are spoken to in Revelations. This makes it unlikely that it would be referring to the entire population of Christians, especially since at least two other churches are commended for their strength of faith and yet do not receive this promise. Further, it does not specifically say how they will be kept “from the hour of trial”. It could be that they are merely protected from the effects of the judgment or are isolated from the worst of the disasters.
Also, while Christians may not be destined for wrath, it does not mean that we will not face suffering or persecution. Christians have also been plagued by diseases and natural disasters throughout history along with everyone else. It is also good to remember what Christians are promised:
Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
(2Ti 3:12-13 ESV)
What is the clear reading of scripture?
I believe that the Bible is far more straightforward than we like to think. We like to try to make it seem difficult to understand, but often the truth of scripture is staring us right in the face.
So, what does the rest of the New Testament have to say about the end times? A very clear picture begins to form as you consider the three parallel accounts of Jesus’ prophecy:
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(Matthew 24:29-31 ESV)
"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.
(Mark 13:24-27 ESV)
"And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."
(Luke 21:25-28 ESV)
Note that all three accounts are very similar have common signs:
- There will be signs in the heavens: a darkening of the sun, moon, and stars.
- The powers of heaven will be shaken.
- The world will see the Son of Man coming the cloud – this is the second coming of Jesus Christ.
- God will send out his angels to gather the elect.
The passage is Luke is a little different on that last point, but since it says “when these things begin to take place”, it implies that Christians will in fact be witnesses of these events.
Paul makes it even more clear in his second letter to the Thessalonians.
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
(2Th 2:1-4 ESV)
Notice how he combines the coming of the Lord Jesus with being gathered, and that “that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first”. He is talking about the rise of the anti-Christ, the “man of lawlessness”. The day of Christ’s return will not come until after the appearance of the anti-Christ.
Now at last we turn to Revelation as it details more of the events of the tribulation and the rise of the beast. Notice the following passages and their references to the saints (Christians) during the tribulation.
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
(Rev 6:9-11 ESV)
A quick note: I am not convinced that some of the seals (including this one) have not already been broken, but as the popular theory holds that the seals are not broken until after the rapture occurs, I include this passage here. I will try to address those thoughts in another post.
And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
(Rev 9:1-4 ESV)
Notice that the distinction is made between those who have the seal (Christians) and those who do not. This implies that there will be Christians on the earth even after the first trumpet has blown.
The next passage is not a pleasant one in my mind as it may very well speak of my own future. It talks about the reign of the beast over the whole earth.
Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. If anyone has an ear, let him hear: If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.
(Rev 13:7-10 ESV)
Notice that, again, Christians are present during the reign of the beast, the anti-Christ.
There is also this interesting passage from Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians:
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
(1Co 15:51-52 ESV)
Notice the phrase “last trumpet”. Now consider what John writes concerning the seventh and final trumpet:
Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever." And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying, "We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, who is and who was, for you have taken your great power and begun to reign. The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth." Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.
(Rev 11:15-19 ESV)
This seems to me to be a reference to the actual return of Jesus Christ when He establishes His authority on the earth and brings about the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom.
This doctrine is summed up nicely in a document called the Didache which was written by the early church as a summation of the teachings of the twelve Apostles.
For lawlessness will increase and they will hate and persecute and betray one another. And then the deceiver of the world will appear as though he were the Son of God, and he shall do signs and wonders and the earth shall be delivered into his hands; and he will commit immoralities which have never been done since the age began.
Then shall the race of men come into the fire of proving trial and many shall be made to stumble and perish. But those who remain established in their faith shall be saved under the very curse.
And then the signs of truth shall be revealed. First, a sign spread out in heaven; then a sign of the sound of a trumpet; and third, the resurrection of the dead, but not all of the dead. But as it was said, "the Lord shall come and all His Holy Ones with Him."Then the world shall see the Lord coming in the clouds of heaven."
Didache 16 (translation by Tim Sauder)
So from a review of the various end times prophesies as well as the testimony of the early church, the Biblical timeline does not support the modern view of the pre-tribulation rapture.
Why does this matter?
I fear that this doctrine has caused a great deal of damage to the Church with the potential of far greater damage in the future.
First, there is an attitude of resignation and apathy. I have actually heard it expressed in church that “well, at least we won’t be there.” This is the same attitude that allowed the Baby Boom generation to allow outlandish government spending go unchecked for decades all the while knowing that they were wracking up an unbearable debt that would fall upon their children to pay. The hope was that they wouldn’t live to see the comeuppance. This mindset fills the church as well with ramifications from a lack of concern for the environment, lack of preparation for hard times, and a lack of concern and care for other people. They have their “fire insurance” which means they won’t have to suffer. Who cares if other people do? While this certainly isn’t the attitude of many Christians, this mindset has taken hold of far too many who love their creature comforts and American dream more than the Kingdom of God.
Second, it is a setup for a great challenge of their faith that could destroy many. Just as the Thessalonians were troubled when they believed that the second coming had already happened, what will happen to the faith of many Christians when the anti-Christ rises to power and their promised rapture does not occur. The anti-Christ is going to come with powerful deceptions, and those with weakened faith will be ripe for the picking.
Third, the church is simply not prepared for the trials ahead – spiritually, physically, mentally, even organizationally. The entire American church is based upon the status quo remaining unchanged. Many churches are coming into this time deeply in debt and with too many ties to our government. This could hit the church hard when reality sets in.
Now these issues I have raised are really only present in the American and possibly the Western European churches. The churches around the world are already under severe persecution, so it will not be as much of a shock for them. In fact, if there is to be a deliverance of churches like Philadelphia, it is only likely to happen for these suffering Christians.
We American Christians need to grow up and realize that the rosy and happy lifestyle we grew up with in which we could freely and loudly worship God as we pleased may soon be at an end. God is faithful, and He will see us through the days ahead – but they will not be easy.
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
(Rev 14:12 ESV)
I think "the last trumpet" is
I think "the last trumpet" is the clincher.
Clearly post-tribulation.
2 Chronicles 7:14
Can you find mention of
"the church" after Chapter 4 of Revelations? Where'd we go?
?
I'm not a "Rapture endorser" but it does puzzle me as to what happens to "the church".
As to those "left" with the seal, who knows but could be "newbies".
?
I'm open to being corrected here, but I've always thought that the church becomes "the whore" in Revelation.
I think there is a difference between "the church" and "the remnant".
2 Chronicles 7:14
Agree about remnant. I dunno about the whore stuff, some think that was a "vision" and symbol for S of Liberty (sadly), some thought/think it's H Clinton. I mean righty-o, whatever. We could drive ourselves nuts huh? :)
Here's my line of thinking about it.
It seems that the end result is the provide a "bride" for "the marriage supper of the lamb".
The "church", which in general was intended to be "the bride" has become apostate, which we certainly see now.
An apostate church has basically "sold out" for money and power, and could be termed a "whore".
A "whore" is not a suitable bride for "the lamb".
So, the remnant come out and become the true "bride", and the "whore" rides the beast.
2 Chronicles 7:14
Agreed
The churches today are part of the problem. I recognized this waaaay back, when instead of teaching people people the right and moral way, they chose to pimp for more building, and excess.
LIVE and let live.
Yeppers. We're in accord. :)
Maybe it's "apathy" of some sorts that makes me try not to worry over all this. I used to be so specific, like insisting on fudgesicles in heaven and all that. A friend said to me (in regards to my heaven "requirements"), "I don't care if I'm part of Jesus' big toe, so long as I'm part of it all" and I try to remember what she said and rest on it since I can't figure it all out....
I was concerned once when I was in my 20's because I had "doubts" (not really doubts but still unanswered questions that really don't/didn't matter) and I talked to my best friend's Granny and said "But what about these doubts" and Granny said "If we didn't have doubts, we wouldn't need faith." I had an "ah-ha" moment and I now rely on that little quote a lot.
To be short, one thing that bugged me was why John the Baptist didn't say something like "Hey Jesus, what's up my cuz?" when he first saw Jesus but said instead "Behold the Lamb of God..." Considering that Mary and Elizabeth were cousins and the babies lept in their respective wombs upon "greeting" each other etc etc...See it's stuff that really didn't matter but made me say "Hm?..."
So perhaps you see what all my rambling means, some of the "questions" don't really matter. Some would say I'm a dumb Christian (or human) for believing that way, but you have to spend faith in order to gain more faith.
*This post was interrupted by children off from school and a few incoming phone calls, sorry if it's more all-over-the-place than usual for me.*
Wow. I had never really made that full connection, but now that you mention it.... I am going to have to re-examine that passage again. Your line of reasoning doesn't contradict my thoughts -- if anything it adds greater weight and severity to them.
That is definitely food for thought.
I live in East Tennessee, right in the middle of the "Baptist Bible Belt".
Believe me, I don't have many around here in agreement with me.
My whole area is full of "feelgood" churches with prosperity doctrines and rapture cults.
It used to be "fire and brimstone and repentance", and now it's "God wants you to have a Mercedes and a McMansion until you take the rapture elevator to Heaven".
2 Chronicles 7:14
In case of rapture can I have your car? and your precious metals too of course...
Of course,
If you would like them.
But I'm of the opinion that I'll be going thru tribulation of a severe nature, and likely not survive in the flesh.
However, I'm going to try to make it to the 1260th day after the "abomination of desolation", if I can.
2 Chronicles 7:14
The passage that really jumps out to me with that thought is this:
If the prostitute is the apostate church -- specifically the church of America -- this is very interesting and disturbing. The image adds up all to well. The church is whoring with the world -- materialism, greed, lust, etc. -- and riding the beast of the New World Order. We are helping the beast along and using it to feed our own desires while Christians overseas suffer for our indulgences.
But when we are no longer useful to them, the New World Order will tear our nation and specifically our church apart leaving us "desolate and naked". That sure does seem what is being set up right now.
And all of this could come down in a single hour.
Yeah, this would not be a popular teaching.
I see it as wider in scope than just America.
I think that the Catholic church also plays a major role.
Remember, in the old european Catholic churches, there are statues of Semiramis/Ishtar in the altar area.
Semiramis is wife of Nimrod, of Babylon.
However, I do agree with the general sentiment you posted, and I just think it's more than the American church. But the American church is a big part.
2 Chronicles 7:14
Good point.
The same question could be asked about the nation of Israel or the city of Jerusalem While it mentions the "sons of Israel" in Revelations 7, no where does it talk about the nation of Israel. Jerusalem is only mentioned at the end with the revelation of the new Jerusalem in chapter 21.
However, there are several references to saints throughout (8:3-4, 13:7-10, 14:12, 17:6, 18:20-24, 19:7-8). All of the other passages are very clear about the time-line, so without any clear evidence to the contrary, I don't see how we can say that Revelations contradicts the other passages.
You know I share the same feelings/questions about the Rapture, I'm just offering some argument. Saint(s) = individuals right (perhaps newbies)? "The Church" (a conglomeration) is what I'm talking about. Perhaps I'm splitting hairs, I've never been a great studier of Revelations.
I've heard others suggest that God took Noah "in" the ark, Elijah "up" in the air and Lot "out" of S&G, So...peeps stand on this as well that God will see fit to Rapture believers.
Since I'm cynical and jaded, I tend toward the "no Rapture, suffer and sacrifice crowd" but I like to hope for rescue. :)
You know, there may even be a "mini-rapture" of some of the Christians when this happens. Maybe this is what is being talked about in that passage to the church in Philadelphia. But quite honestly, when I look at the Church around the world, the church in America will not be in that group. We have not kept "patient endurance". We haven't really endured anything in this country up to this point. We don't even know what suffering means in America. If such an event were to take place, it would be the rapture of some of the most severely persecuted churches around the world.
I appreciate the counter-argument as we need to hash out these ideas to get to the truth. This is part of what took me so long to make this post: I was researching sermons and other writings to get an understanding of where they are coming from. But I kept coming back to the clear the message of the Bible and the great levels of effort required by many to support a pre-tribulation rapture when no clear evidence existed.
Muse- Apocalypse Please
Agreed.
I see no basis for a "pre-tribulation rapture".
I think the whole concept is a cooked-up fiction, designed to lead people astray.
It seems to me that the reasons for it's promotion are in the "feel-good Christianity" circles where it is easier to get pews filled and offering plates stuffed, when the people are told what they want to hear.
But the real insidious parts about it are listed in your parts 1,2,and 3 above. Especially that it can be responsible for a very serious "falling away" from the faith, when people who believed this all their lives find out that they didn't get "raptured out", and that they have to go thru tribulation.
And at that point, they may feel that they've been duped all along, and that the entire "Christianity thing" is wrong, and they give up their faith.
I think that is the real danger behind it.
Another way for Satan to deceive them and make them renounce their faith, and be easier for him to divert into wickedness.
2 Chronicles 7:14
and offering plates stuffed, when the people are told what they
That's the key, to any religious entity. today.
They have totally lost their perspective, much like the pigmen.
LIVE and let live.
It was interesting. Cannot remember which one it was, but I was reading some of the writings of the early church fathers. He was talking about how to tell false prophets from real ones. He basically said that if a person asks you to give them money, they are from Satan. How many Christian organizations today don't ask for money?
Exactly. That is my fear as well.
The other thing that concerns me is that there are certain well-known and highly respected pastors who seem to have a solid grasp on scripture but who believe this doctrine. Is it that their own human intelligence is clouding their vision, or are they actually part of the deception itself?
(I'm jumping into the lion's den with this one.... I'm going to post it on the forum of a site associated with one of the pastors I am talking about)
I know that there are a lot of Bible passages in this post, but I wanted to be somewhat exhaustive (though I did not cover every single passage -- but the vast majority of New Testament passages) as I am hoping to use this post to talk to other Christians with whom I have contact.