Wow very intriguing book! I am reading it now. I have had it for a couple years and not read it. Very powerful stuff.
Explains very well why we are where we are and how it is because of the Federal Reserve and the 1933 bankruptcy and why we operate without real money etc.
Perhaps more importantly is explains how to free oneself from the nonsense and turn the tables on them rejecting thier contracts they tricked us into etc. Some amazing stuff in there.
We can be free now, withdraw any implied consent, cancel our implied debts, and nullify most of the nonsense we see going on around us now.
http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/4534
Also go here and listen to the June 25th 2009 conference call, second from the top. Some amazing stuff:
http://www.hjrbonds.com/calls.php
Alright, let's just start this again at the top.
Let me review what I believe you are saying:
You are saying that when we purchase a house, we (the buyer) create a note of credit that in essence purchases the house. This is essentially an IOU to the homeowner that promises that we will pay the price in full. Is that correct?
Then the bank comes along and offers to replace our IOU with their own FRNs which they give to the seller to settle our IOU. We then make our payments to them with interest payments that far exceed the original amount of the IOU.
Is that a correct description?
Perhaps it might be enlightening if you describe how this process should work in the current system of credit. How should the original transaction have occurred when we purchased our homes?
Some People
May perceive me as harsh, but I'm ALL about the truth.
I don't mean to be harsh, but I do not editorialize
because my english teachers taught me not to do so.
I wish I was blessed with the editorial skills of Devon and Stick.
I tend to be blunt and to the point. Please do not take any offense from that learned attribute.
LIVE and let live.
Actually..
I thought you were doing just fine. You ~know~ that what is being discussed is basically wrong and you have voiced that.
Now, we can dissect it till the end of time in intellectual discourse, one point rebutting another into infinity.
That doesn't make it right.
So you are just cutting to the chase... :)
~Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind.~
Sorry you guys flat do not understand this. You do exactly what you say is wrong every day the only thing is they duped you into paying for it twice rather then just the one time. It seems pretty apparant your minds are closed you read twelve pages or what ever and think you understand...
If the system is wrong then why haven't you quit using FRN's because using them is exactly the same thing I am talking about they are nothing but check on an empty account so you are stealing, why don't you just stop?
Ok I'll let it go now but I must say I am quit disappointed at the prejudgment and closemindedness before you really have all the information.
Here is the problem, as I see it -- and perhaps it is because of that book as the starting point. I have learned that the most important aspect of any idea is the foundation. If the foundation is flawed, the structure will collapse.
I actually skipped ahead to read the solution, and that is where I saw her laying down more of her philosophical foundation. What I saw was badly flawed with horribly misguided assumptions that would ultimately result in pain and suffering for many people. It simply does not match up to Reality in any way, shape or form. With this kind of a foundation, I have a hard time even wanting to learn about the rest of the structure that is built upon it.
I want a true foundation based on solid principles of integrity, justice, and mercy. This is what attracted me to Ron Paul -- he has a very solid philosophical foundation that rings true. It resonates with what I believe and what I have observed in life. Therefore, I can place at least some trust in what arises from that philosophical base. I have no trust in the foundation of that article.
Perhaps we need to start over with a different foundation, or perhaps the entire premise is flawed. I do not know. But that book certainly does not help your cause.
So you read and few pages and then tried to skip ahead? I don't think you even got to the foundation you were just at the grading for the foundation and then you tried to put a roof on and your conclusion is it won't work and lots of people will get hurt... ;-)
Good thing building engineers have to read the whole thing before they understand how to build or we would indeed have lots of folks hurt ;-)
Come on Khomar read the friggen book and quite trying to guess what it's about because until you read the thing your not qualified to pass any judgement on what you think it will result in.
I think her philosophy already prejudiced you against her. But since she turned you off and you asked for another foundation then go here http://moneyonaccount.com and download and listen to the Denver mp3's.
This is a steep learning curve I am telling you but it is a key to regaining our freedoms so you have to be willing to put in the time. Your not going to get it by skimming a few pages of any book.
No, I am not going to read the book. I have a limited amount of time, and I do not have time to waste on frivolous pursuits. I saw enough -- more than enough actually -- in the several dozen pages that I did read to tell me that her world-view is simply not compatible with reality. This tells me that she is simply not worth my time reading.
Quite honestly, I have seen this line many, many times before -- her philosophy I mean. It is the same ancient lies of false religions of the ancient past regurgitated once again in a slightly new form. I recognized the form -- known as Gnosticism in Biblical times -- and so I know that I can dismiss it.
If there is something more to your idea, it will not be found in that book. I simply do not have time to sift through and try to glean out a little bit of truth within a host of lies and falsehood. Let me read words of truth instead.
The guy on the MP3 links I gave you as a pretty staunch Christian and I think perhaps you might relate to him better.
That is indeed possible.
End the Fed
yeah what ever happened to that
It had some serious steam. then Healthcare flooded.
"a simple judgment of my character is how I treat a person who can do absolutely nothing for me." -Stephen Howard
"The most thoroughly wasted of all days is one in which you haven't laughed" -Julian Howard
well people have short attention spans and get sidetracked by bits of cheese. I do it too, we all do it now and again. Difference between us and most others is that we can remember to get back on task and/or tie new news back to old news to keep it alive in peoples minds. I think 1207 is up to 282 co-sponsors and I believe Ron has started talking to Barney Rubble to get it moved out for debate on the floor.
Also 1207 is a bill with a long term goal, healthcare on the other hand is something that is being rammed down our throats hard. Therefor sometimes we must prioritize, as long as we don't lose our way on the audit and exposure of the financial system we will be fine. That's why such a decentralized movement is so key, that way those that want to keep abreast of one thing can inform to the others what is going on, multiplied by thousands of others. Though we have to know on certain things when it is time to come back from scouting positions and defend the main base or attack out from it.
Convenient that, eh?
There ya go.
Blah.
In case you have not noticed, FRN's are our current monetary system.
I've understood what you are saying for years, but it is merely an intellectual attempt at once again defrauding a system that is defrauding you.
I spent 6 months last winter using not a single FRN at all... so before you try me for using a medium of exchange in reality and understanding the concept, feel free to do the same and we'll talk about it.
I am not prejudging you.. I'm disappointed that you, of all people, fell into this particular sinkhole of thought. The information you are talking about has been out since at least the 70's, when I found it. That someone presented it a slightly different way does not change the basic precept.
However, I don't remember our founding fathers hatching up ways to make a buck off of King George by exploiting his system... instead, they fixed the situation.
~Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind.~
You just justified using the current system but condemn me to for using that same system to recover my stolen property ;-)
My credit is my property and they have used it to finance immoral wars and a host of other evil things so if I take control of it and no longer allow them to do that I am stealing all of a sudden? You guys do not know what your talking about and refuse to investigate the matter. If more partiots understood this and took thier credit back they would not be able to finance all thier evil.
Assuming this is something you found in the past is another, well assumption. I have studied all the arguments past and present for many years, the mistakes of the past do not equal the present.
You have made up your mind and are now closed to any new information I am disappointed I guess because I expected more from you. If you gave this a thorough study and then disagreed I would be less inclined to say anything however you have associated it with something you looked at in the past without giving it a fair hearing and study. So there is nothing more I can do now unless you change your mind and decide to get all the information before dismissing it out of hand.
Wrong.
The assumption that ~my credit is my property~ is a horribly flawed concept. Credit is NOT a property, NOT a God-given right... it is a service EXTENDED TO YOU.
So the idea that ~I can steal whatever I want from a flawed system BECAUSE THEY STOLE MY CREDIT~ is simple BS.
If the terms are flawed or stacked against you, as in a home mortgage, then do not use it.
As far as not using money, good luck with that.
And this is not new information, it is the same old justification with a new presenter. It is not that I'm close-minded to the topic... it is that I see it as yet another model for ~getting one over on the system.~ So I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time on it.
The way to fix it is to get rid of central banks, as we have in the past. The fix is not manipulating said system so that you can get a leg up. That to me is dishonest, so I will not do it personally. If you do not feel that way, then have at it.
After all, we still (sorta) have the freedom to have our own opinion on subjects.. :)
~Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind.~
Stealing means taking something without consent that does not belong to you. Your credit is your labor and wealth you life energy etc.. You created it. it is all there is right now that is used for a medium of exchange. The creator is the owner of all he creates unless he assigns or sells it to someone else with full consent and disclosure. If you lend your credit to someone else as a service you are still owner and can withdraw consent. If you were deceived into giving your credit away then that is fraud and you are entitled to recoup what was stolen. You cannot steal what you already own. Your contention that it is stealing is wrong.
I agree the way to fix it is to get rid of the central banks. But you are all still using FRN's which are notes created by the Central bank so how do you propose to get rid of them using thier notes? The way in my opinion is to expose the fraud. This does that while recouping some of what was stolen from you. IT IS NOT STEALING and does not even come close to the definition of stealing. Trying to associate it with stealing because you don't understand it does not make it so.
here are the material facts.
let's look at it another way The banks loaned me no money but claimed they did. Then only exchange that took place is me creating a promissory note and giving it to them which they then deposited as money. They then tricked me into thinking they loaned me some money which they had elsewhere. I can prove they did not
I stop paying them because I discovered they never loaned me any money. Whom am I stealing from and whom will will have to pay that fraudulent loan that did not exist in the first place that they deceived me into paying on? As soon as you can answer those questions I will concede it is stealing.
Ah.
So if I rob a bank, by your definition, it is not stealing.
I wonder how that would go with the court system?
As far as ~your credit is your labor and wealth~, that is absurd.
You do not ~make~ credit working, living, breathing, experiencing life. It is not a product.
Credit is a SERVICE provided to you, a contract between you and another that you will accept XXX somethings NOW in return for REPAYING XXX somethings later.
So if you enter a contract and then break it, you are indeed stealing. You are taking something without consent (you are defaulting) that does not belong to you (The FRN's were NOT yours before you entered the contract.)
Again, intellectualize the issue all you want, but you cannot prove it in reality.
If you want to bring your theory into reality, simply rob a bank.
Then tell the police that the Fed stole it from you... you were just recouping something stolen from you.
When you've got the youtube of THAT up, we'll continue your discussion... until then, I've spent too much time on it.
~Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind.~
Now your just getting emotional and losing rationality since you can't answer the questions. Simply repeating it is stealing or robbing does not make it so. Answer the questions. Whose credit is it then if it is offered to me as a service? It is the credit of the offerer. So if the bank offers me credit it is assumed they have something of value to be used on THEIR CREDIT? If in fact they have nothing of value but trick me into thinking my credit is thier value then they have committed fraud and theft.
And my credit has value because it represents my labor and wealth if you don't think you labor and wealth have any value then I don't know what to tell you.
The bank claimed they were giving me money. I discovered they in fact gave me nothing. But instead used my promissory note as the money they claimed as thiers. I am the owner of the promissory note I created it! Again who is it I have stolen from and who sustained a loss? And what is it I have stolen when my credit was stolen from me?
It is no theory people are going into court and recouping thier losses every day. Robbing a bank of thier FRN's would be theft. I am recouping my promissory note they stole from me. And Yeah I guess if it's on Youtube it must be true... sigh!
PS your contention that I should rob a bank to prove my point is getting ridiculous since the mortgage scam is perceived as legal by most people who do not understand how it works. So I expose the fraud and educate people at the same time.
Hawkie, do you have a mortgage?
What I ask is simple, Yes Chief I have one or no.
Yes and I am in the process of going after the mortgage company for fraud now. All these foreclosures are a taking of wealth. People are hurting out there and loosing thier homes and everything and need help.
You can lead them to water but you can't make them drink.
Good luck with your mortgage suit, I sold many hundred's of homes over the last couple of decades and I can tell you first hand that the money that comes from the mortgage company is all good. It is the life blood of the housing market, where it is pulled from is of little concern.
That's just it the money did not come from the mortgage company it came from the so called borrower, You said it "where it's pulled from is of little concern" that has allowed this scam to perpetuate and steal the wealth of this nation!
Yep That's me
Spare me the rhetoric.
LIVE and let live.
If you really want to dig into this go here and download the Denver MP3's and and start listening
http://moneyonaccount.com
Ok, I think you just lost me. I decided to read a bit of that book you linked hoping to find more details on how we are legally not obligated to pay back our loans. Instead, I found a mess of spiritual talk based on wishful thinking. I am a very spiritual person, but as part of that, I am also a firm believer in Reality -- what the actual state of the universe is.
This could quickly delve into deeper philosophical regions, but for now let me keep it at the level of economics. The basic gist of the book that I get is this: the system isn't real, therefore live as if it isn't. There are some fundamental problems with that.
1) Most people believe it is real -- and like it or not, you have to live with them.
Barring isolating yourself in some remote enclave (and hoping that no one comes looking for you), you are going to have to interface with the people around you. They have contracts, titles, laws, and expectations that you will need to meet or suffer the consequences. It is all well and good to say that the system is all fake, but what are you going to do with the FBI comes knocking on your door?
2) Reality has a true cost.
While it is nice to think that we can all just simply live along side each other, what we forget is that survival takes work -- actual back-breaking, sweat inducing work. Food doesn't just grow -- at least not in quantities that can sustain you for long. It takes care and nurturing, harvesting, preserving, and storing. If you have never done canning, let me tell you that it takes a lot of work. Combine this with the fact that most people are inherently lazy (why do you think we spend so much time making labor-saving devices), and you suddenly realize that there will be people who will try to get others to do the work for them. This is the fundamental reason why communism and socialism fail. In fact, I find it funny because the very beginning of that broadcast completely contradicts the message of the book.
3) There is a natural law that we are all inclined to break.
Now I will break my own rule here and turn philosophical.
Devon calls it honor. I call it Natural Law. It is the concept of fulfilling your promises. It is the idea of upholding the concept of law, the idea of right and wrong. While the book poo-poos the idea of morality by saying that we are not answerable for our actions because they are not real, this is simply not true. Without the concept of right and wrong, what is to stop anyone from defrauding, murdering, raping, pillaging, or any number of atrocities. The very fact that we condemn the banks and the Federal Reserve means that we accept, at our core, the concept of a moral law that rules the Universe.
Now consider for a moment the concept of God -- a being who created and shaped the Universe and established its laws -- both physical and spiritual. In the process, He also established its Natural Law and instilled it in every creature. If the creatures were to violate that law, would not the Creator be obligated, by His own adherence to that law, to see that law upheld and justice served? Would we not be foolish to think that we can do whatever we want in violation of that law without fear of some sort of reprisal? In fact, do we not yearn for a hand of justice (you can call it karma, if you will) to sweep down and destroy those who commit evil against other people? Do we not wish to see our corrupt government officials "get what they deserve?"
Okay, I am getting off of the topic. But it seems that there is a lot of hand-waving involved in this idea without any real accounting for the cost of breaking free from the system. What happens if the banks decide to say 'no'?
1) Most people believe it is
If you don't break any laws the FBI won't knock on your doors. This is not about isolating oneself it about knowing the rules and operating within them without harming others.
Yes and that the only real value we have anymore since they took our gold and silver. That is the point all debt notes are created based on that and that is what we are trading now. Thats the point there is no money. Ther eis enough abundance for us all and then some however these people have stolen iit from us under this fraud. Please don't give up on this it takes some time to learn and understadn whats happened and why everything seems backwards but it wkll all make sense I promise.
You are operating here under a misunderstadning of her based on incomplete information. If I have dug enough gold to last me my whole life and someone steals it from me and after years of toil discover where it went and have an opportunity to get some of it back why would I not take that opportunity?
Nothing advocated violates any law. Again you need complete information. Her philosophy may apppear to do that as I said it is not a how to but more a primer on the concept. Still unless you read the whole book you are missing some pieces.
The law is on our side and we can use it to enforce it against the bank. Just FYI some banks have said no and were forced to comply. I haven't checked but if you have a files uplaod section I can upload a memorandum of law with all the points and authorities for this?
Yep...
I couldn't get past page 12.
The woman is stating in pretty blunt terms that, since she knows a fractional lending system is a fraud, she is quite willing to commit fraud herself. In her example, purchasing products with monies borrowed that she had no intent to pay when entering the loan. Her self-realization seems to border on narcassistic... she's entirely ego-driven in the worst possible way. As in theft is OK, because others do it.
Now, I'm still thinking about the mortgage part we were talking about earlier, if it be service-based and none get hurt in the transaction. However, that would be if I found out about it AFTER signing said document. I would not ENTER INTO THE AGREEMENT with the sole purpose of defrauding a company that is defrauding others. You do not do business with a thief, after all... :)
She is spot-on about the IRS... but we all knew that on this forum. As RP says, they can do it because they have the guns and the courts. We may someday be able to ~fix~ that... in the meantime, it is the law of the land.
~Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind.~
Sigh... You guys are judging the book after only reading a few pages, come one you are better then that. Set her spiritual philosophy aside and read the whole thing before judging. It is not a how to book it is more of a primer of how things work based on fraudulent or undisclosed contracts.
She did not commit fraud there were no monies borrowed because there is no money all funds are created on our signatures and that's what she was doing. Understand you have been deceived into thinking it is money or that something of value was borrowed and you incurred an obligation but that is not what is going on in the whole country. That can only happen when there is an exchange of value. We create the value and no one else there is no exchange. When she borrowwed the so called money she created it right there ith her signature that is how it is all created. The supposed lender was trying to commit fraud she simply retained what she created.
I said to "listen" to the other link on the mortgage thing that explains immediately what we are talking about. How does her philosophy nullify anything I have explained on the mortgages? If they can print notes and call it money why can't you? well in fact you can and it is written in the law as the remedy for the bankruptcy. They could not pledge our property wealth lives and labor without just compensation so it is written into the law, even though they did it without our consent. I don't need a service from a bank to create a note. You do it every day if you write checks. the fraud is in thinking you have to pay twice.
That is the law of the land and it's the only game in town to pay for goods and services it as set up for our benefit during the bankruptcy but they used it to rob us.
And what the IRS does is not the law of the land. I can't download all this into your head so you understand it in a few posts your going to have to do some serious learning here on your own. But trust me or humor me which ever, it will click and you will be amazed angry and motivated all at the same time. I wouldn't bother much with it if I did not think it extremely important. I am not trying to be pushy here or controversial for lack of a better word, it's just that I know when you guys understand it you will be that much more greater assets in shutting the whole thing down.
~Sigh~
She did not commit fraud there were no monies borrowed because there is no money all funds are created on our signatures and that's what she was doing.
That is a flat copout. She is justifying stealing FRNs. That's it. If you want to intellectualize fraud as being OK because the medium of exchange is stacked against you, feel free to do so... I won't however. Simply because I can take those FRN's and use them to purchase a product or service from another citizen. So they are a medium of exchange, no matter how flawed.
You don't have to preach to me about the laws of the land and the IRS... you are under the mistaken idea that me or my family has ever paid federal taxes. Yes, there is a way around it, but you cannot do it unless you have a pretty big bankroll to stuff into a tiny loophole. However, most American citizens will never EVER be able to do that. So there is no real reason to talk about it, because it is not practical for most. Do not assume, however, that because I say that they have the courts and the guns, that it is legal. It is not. Does that matter? Not to the majority of America.
~Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind.~
If you want to
I think here you hit on the key point. Whether or not fiat currency is flawed, it is the medium of exchange in our current economy. If we take that money away from the banks, someone somewhere is going to have to pay that bill. If we were dumb enough to take loan (and yes, I was that dumb), then we should deal with the consequences. I should have known better, and Lord willing, I will not make the same mistake again.
You cannot fight evil with evil, but there is a way to defeat the monster without defrauding anyone. This, I believe, is the best way to fight this battle -- a solution that will allow me to sleep at night.
It is not the only medium of exchange but they ant you to think that. it is the crumbs of what is used as a medium of exchange.
No no no!!! You are not taking any money away from the banks!!! You are giving them credit and they pretend to loan it back to you. The only one paying any bill is you becaus of the fraud they just perpetuated on you.
You guys are operating on a false premise here that the bank gave you something of value, they did nothing of the kind so where is the evil except for thier fraud? You are actually doing good by exposing the fraud and taking control of your credit so they cannot use it for evil.
I do not see how you can say they gave me nothing of value. They did: they gave me the ability to buy the house at a time in which I did not have enough money (be it FRNs, gold, silver, or other assets) to purchase the house from the seller. They fronted the cash to allow me to make an offer on the house and see that the seller got paid.
That money had to come from somewhere, because the seller did in fact get paid money that they could then turn around to buy assets such as gold or silver. So the banker gave me something that I did not have -- wealth... but at interest. Are you saying that I could simply sign a paper to buy the house and not have to pay anything to the seller? Where did the money come from that he received from the deal?
That's what I am trying to tell you. The bank did not front you anything the money came from "you" I can prove it they deposited your promissory note into an account just like a check and then typed in the amount of the note on the asset side of their ledger for the new account. You created the money they brought nothing to the table but the false premise they were loaning you money like they had it in an account somewhere to lend. They did not and they cannot prove they loaned you a dime and that's why people are getting thier houses back free and clear by exposing thier fraudulent loan scam.
You funded your own loan after you paid for your house with your promissory note. That's what I am trying to tell you, your note is legal tender according to the law just like FRN's and they know it. But they know that you don't know it and they used your lack of knowledge to steal your legal tender from you. And made it appear like they gave you money they had on account. That is fraud and theft just the same as if someone broke onto your home and stole FRN's. You are not stealing or giving anyone else debt by exposing the fraud and getting you property back free and clear.
Whats the scripture "My people perish for lack of knowledge"
let this sink in this is exactly how every bank mortgage in America works!
Well who paid my contractor?
I agree to pay X for said job = I pay X.
If you got a so called loan from the bank to pay the contractor you paid him not the bank as you think. All we do is trade debt notes as a medium of exchange. What the don't want you to know is your personal notes are legal tender under the law just like FRN's.
You not ripping off anyone with a promisorry note since it is legal tender and they use it as a medium of exhcnage just like an FRN and trade it to someone else or other bank for some other goods or services etc.
Look if I draw you a picture on some parchment & you pay my Mtg payment in FRN for me I will draw you a lil picture each month.
So in other words, when you purchase a house, you are actually committing the first act of fraud by creating money out of thin air. Then the banks come along and say that they actually created the money and charge you interest.
If this is true and we take the banks out of the equation (which is essentially what you are asking for) has not fraud still been committed? Have you not then basically stolen wealth to the tune of the price of the house? Where did the wealth that was given to the seller come from?
It would seem to me that the only moral choice would be to simply never buy a house using the government's laws. Otherwise, to buy and sell houses is to counterfeit money which hurts everyone due to a devalued currency.
You guys keep saying it yourself it is the only medium of exchange we have as legal tender. The part you are missing is your own notes are legal tender also. You already do it every day with FRN's. Its the only game in town. If we ever get our gold and silver back (unlikely) then we would be obligated for all our notes.
What's the difference of we create the note or the Federal reserve does since they are both legal tender according to the law since we are in a bankruptcy? All we trade for medium of exchange is debt notes period. Except because of our lack of knowledge they have taken advantage of us and left us the crumbs FRN's while they live like the kings of the earth on our notes and bonds.
PS If you believe paying with your note is an act of fraud then you commit fraud every day using FR "notes"
Wierd how things happen...
Read the review Nystrom did on RP's new book.
http://news.goldseek.com/bullnotbull/1250689578.php
It is exactly what we are discussing...lol
excerpt...
~Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind.~
Like I said before
Two wrongs don't equal a right.
LIVE and let live.
So if someone steals my property and I discover where it is and go take it back you consider that wrong?
Um...
If you are purchasing said property from monies given you that you took a contract for and then defaulted on (fraud)... is that actually your property? Because technically you stole the FRN's to purchase it...
But that is OK in your book, because the Fed is making money?
I understand exactly where you are coming from in terms of the situation... however, to ~cheat them back~ is not an honorable solution.
~Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind.~
You keep making up your own version and it is incorrect. Never mind The fed makes money based on you and me as the sureties. That is irrelevant to what were talking about. I am not purchasing properties from monies that were givin me I am purchasing on my own credit NO ONE GAVE ME ANYTHING. . When you get a loan or a credit card there is no transfer you are creating any money you spend no one else and paying them for the privlage. So there is no theft on your part. The fraud is inducing you to pay someone else again for creating your own credit/value.
This is why I keep telling you to learn how it works. You keep operating from an incorrect belief that you understand what's going on. This is not a slight. I am trying to tell you that you have been deceived and it does not work the way we have all been brought up to believe. That only works with gold and silver which we do not have any-more because they stole that too.
When they supposedly give you a loan the did not give you anything, really I am not making this up I can prove it but as I said it take some relearning. Take a regular bankruptcy court if you declare bankruptcy they do not give you money to pay your bills they offset your debt. Apply that the the whole country that is all any of us are doing is offsetting debt even using FRN's. Stop thinking of FRNS as money.
Now if you get a private contract with someone that is different then you agree to exchange ex amount of FRNS or other collateral for said property so we are not harming each other. We are talking about banks supposedly loaning us money when they do not.
I do not think of FRN's as money, per se.
They are a monetary exchange unit, however.
I understand what you are saying, but you are not thinking it through. When you ~cheat~ the system, as you are talking about, you are merely transferring that debt to the TAXPAYER, of which you are one. You are diluting personal debt into the collective... which is exactly why we are in the position we are in today in America.
The solution is to not to ~cheat~ the system.. the solution is to GET OUT OF IT ALTOGETHER. That includes not incurring debt and living with your means. It also means getting rid of said system... not feeding it by ~cheating~ it. That is not too big of a worry for me, because the system is designed to fail... it is a Ponzi scheme, after all.
You can, again, minimize your footprint in the system... quite effectively. If enough of us do that, then the system will go away quite naturally. THAT is what we should be teaching people.. not ways and means to manipulate the system so that our fellow citizens pay for it.
~Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind.~
I have thought this through for over 20 year my friend ;-) I am not cheating the system and not transfering the debt to tax payers of which I am not one. The solution is yes to get out of the system but that is impossible right now unless you wish to live in a cave. You are not understanding fully what I am saying because everyone gets thier funds no debt is transfered to anyone else except you if you keep playing thier fraud game not knowing the rules allowing them to take advantage of you. However its not transfered by me to you they literally are stealing it from you. By understanding the rules by which they play you simply begin living off your own means that you create rather then transfering it (unknowingly) to government who gives you back a few crumbs of it (FRN's). This is what you guys are after this is where you finally become responsible for yourself and not a ward of the state thrown a few left over crumbs from what they confiscate from you.
There is much more to this as I said the make trillions off of us. but I am just trying to get you a basic understanding first. This is the final rabbit hole and it goes way deeper then most can imagine.
We can go round and round about this...
But at the end of the day, it does not matter. By taking a line of credit and defaulting on it, you are merely transferring the debt to taxpayers.
By taking a line of credit and defaulting on it, you are stealing. You are taking something that HAS value in the reality that we currently live in for nothing. You are not exchanging it for work, for the sweat of your brow, for an idea, for a product, for a service. You are knowingly exchanging a currency for nothing.
It is theft... whether we are talking about FRN's, beads, seashells or salt.
That the people that have the salt get it for free does not mean that it does not have value with the citizens of said country.
It also devalues said currency as it goes... yes, I know debt is attached in a fiat system, but defrauding the system merely makes it worse.
You cannot become responsible for yourself by passing on the responsibility of your actions to others... no matter what the currency is.
You first have to become responsible for your own actions.
Theft wouldn't be one of my first choices.
~Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind.~
Sorry you simply assume you know what your talking about without really putting in the time to understand it.
:)
Basic copout there.. I understand theft. I just choose not to participate in it.
~Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind.~