 for Rhino - Sun, 07/13/2008 - 21:49 For those that do not know who I am, I am a regular at dailypaul and a somewhat regular critic of the 9/11 inside job irrationalists. For those that are more interested in who I am, you can go there and track me, find the post, “Judgement day. By Rhino”, and there you will find every title post I have made. Granted this does not cite every link where I have commented, but you can at least draw the cover of the book. My pet peeve is not with the truthers and conspiracy buffs per se, but it is with what they call truth and what they fail to call speculation. I know that Devon will disagree with this, but truth is not relative and it has a definition. I prescribe to a definition of truth to which an objectivist would prescribe. If you wish to research what an objectivist is, read Rand, Paul, or most other libertarian scholars. Despite its collectivist thought, the MSM also regards truth similarly. This is very important if we wish to infiltrate, flank, or simply take head on the daily head pounding that we all get from the MSM. Being also a realist, I realize that if we want to spread the message of freedom, the easiest path is to overlay the existing path. To take what has already been defined in society and simply offer a better solution. It just so happens that with regards to truth, the easiest path and the right path cross in my opinion. All your theories about 9/11 may be true, but they also may not be true. We do not know and we may never know. But to state what you believe as truth and fact is simply false and will get you labeled as a kook. The message should be to demand for transparency, to demand clarity, to demand independent investigations, to release all information, to elect a president that we can all believe will release all the information. At that point the chips will fall where they fall. Granted, it is too late to reach a consensus, much less a unanimous verdict, but at least the families of the 9/11 victims and the families of the dead soldiers can have closure and we may be able to find some facts and truths that are still out there waiting to be found. If one of those facts and truths is that it turns out to have been an inside job then so be it, but do not get your hopes up, this probably will not be discovered. Not because it is deeply buried, but because it probably is not true. There is merit in being an advocate, but there is no merit in labeling speculations as truth. Even Mr. Cage, a reputable advocate on your side, in the BBC documentary states clearly when he is speculating. A youtube video is not evidence and never will be evidence of truth and fact, but, by all means, post away. You will be judged by your posts, and your titles, and your content, so be clear about what you are saying and writing. I sometimes finish my posts with a saying, “The message is freedom, not power.” To place blame is to send a message about power. To ask for answers is to send a message for freedom. I almost always end my posts with WAHOR!!! Track me, go to the Judgement day post and click on the We All Have Our Roles post and you will see what it means. I wish nothing but peace and happiness for all of you, even Oruval, and I think deep down he knows this. If some day, the battle field calls, I will be at your side and I will be willing to die for each and every one of you in hopes that my death will help the ones I save to carry the message of freedom. This is the ultimate life lesson for my three children. They will never forget who I was and for what I sacrificed my life. I do not wish to end on a sad note, because I am truly an optimist. We have momentum in our favor and I truly believe that our real manifest destiny is freedom through a peaceful revolution. Not we, the former colonists, but we the human race. Whether you like it or not, I am going to pray for all of you tonight. WAHOR!! for Thomas (not verified) - Thu, 07/24/2008 - 08:00 I have had more laughs from this one thread than any I have ever read in 7 years combined. I hope Rhino has a revelation and makes a 180 but that will remain to be seen. I too am a truther ... but I choose to label facts as facts ... and speculations as speculation. I think the commission report leaves gaping wholes. I think the "inside job" theory is highly speculative and unlikely. The truth is we do not know the truth about 9/11. WAHOR!! Bark bark woof woof... don't I make more sense? for Thomas (not verified) - Thu, 07/24/2008 - 12:17 krmaya2 I spotted that and was pecking away slowly to slam him and when I finally pressed the post button low and behold I was sniped by oruval. for oruval - Thu, 07/24/2008 - 16:43 No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for Devon_Saunders - Thu, 07/24/2008 - 11:32 His relentless search for truth seems to stop at whether gravity is a truth or not. I think he needs to get a little more motivated on this grand search of his... so far it seems he hasn't even made it to the starting line. :) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Devon_Saunders - Thu, 07/24/2008 - 11:38 Fits.. ;) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for krmaya2 - Thu, 07/24/2008 - 11:51 for brightdRRkness - Thu, 07/24/2008 - 08:03 for brightdRRkness - Thu, 07/24/2008 - 06:12 for see-thru (not verified) - Thu, 07/24/2008 - 13:14 LOL! for stick - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 13:40 LAW III: To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction: or the mutual actions of two bodies upon each other are always equal, and directed to contrary parts. — Whatever draws or presses another is as much drawn or pressed by that other. If you press a stone with your finger, the finger is also pressed by the stone. If a horse draws a stone tied to a rope, the horse (if I may so say) will be equally drawn back towards the stone: for the distended rope, by the same endeavour to relax or unbend itself, will draw the horse as much towards the stone, as it does the stone towards the horse, and will obstruct the progress of the one as much as it advances that of the other. If a body impinges upon another, and by its force changes the motion of the other, that body also (because of the equality of the mutual pressure) will undergo an equal change, in its own motion, toward the contrary part. The changes made by these actions are equal, not in the velocities but in the motions of the bodies; that is to say, if the bodies are not hindered by any other impediments. For, as the motions are equally changed, the changes of the velocities made toward contrary parts are reciprocally proportional to the bodies. This law takes place also in attractions, as will be proved in the next scholium. Point being that force exerted on the lower floors by the falling upper floors would in fact be exerted back upon the upper floors thus slowing the fall. As Khomar said if the collapse was slowed by even .1 of a second at each floor due to action/reaction as each lower floor would have been stationary that would have added 10-11 seconds to the collapse, in effect doubling the time of the actual collapse. Really, if you cannot wrap your head around this then I vote this journey into retardsylvania be ended even though we are all having a lot of fun with your vacation from reality. One last thing, you cite a truck hitting a kid on a bike. Well if that truck hit 80+ kids on bikes I can guarantee you that it will slow the truck down considering you are comparing this to the collapse of the towers. The collapse had what 10-20 feet conservatively to start? And somehow you think that would be enough to crash through 80 stories of concrete and structural steel and just throw 47 giant vertical support columns out of the way the whole length of the building to collapse in the same amount of time as if any object dropped from the same height to hit the ground.
for krmaya2 - Thu, 07/24/2008 - 11:26 for stick - Thu, 07/24/2008 - 21:17 I appreciate that, thank you for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 17:32 Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for stick - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 17:43 for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 15:08 1. Consider a meteor hitting the earth. 2. What if the truck continues to accelerate roughly the same rate as gravity and each kid was hit one at a time? WAHOR!! for stick - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 15:21 Neither point you make addresses the collapse of the twin towers at all, well that is unless you really do not understand the laws of motion which is what Devon has been getting at for the last 2 going on 3 days. Plus with the kids and the truck thing you of course are forgetting that you would have to pile the kids up at the front thus creating drag and slowing it down. You just don't seem to understand that just because something is heavy does not mean that it is out of the scope of everyday natural laws of physics. Do you agree with this statement: Do you agree with this statement: Do you agree with this statement: for stick - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 15:46 for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 17:31 Also, the kids with the bike thing is the most flawed analogy I've ever heard of. You would have to drop the truck ON the kids from zero speed.. and the kids would have the be flat, thousands of pounds and have a rather huge surface area. At this point, why not conjecture that, because you can drop an ice cube on the floor and watch it melt, of course the pancake theory works? This guy is nutz. Suspending physical laws to support a pet theory is the shittiest ~logic~ I've ever heard of. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for stick - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 17:42 for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 17:48 Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for stick - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 17:53 for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 18:04 Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for stick - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 18:08 for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 18:16 I jiggered your settings real quick to try out a new ~role~ on the forum. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for brightdRRkness - Thu, 07/24/2008 - 09:07 ooooooo! "not quite right"? for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 17:58 Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Devon_Saunders - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:30 So far.. point 3 in the posterchild debate for smoke and mirrors... 1./ Point three is if Rhino is a proponent of the pancake theory or not. 2./ He has decided that his current opinion is that although the initial collapse had nothing to do with the speed that the structures came down, the structures still came down at that speed because of the pancake theory. As far as I could tell with his rather convoluted delivery, anyways. 3./ He does admit that gravity and inertia were indeed in force on that day. 4./ Although that had nothing to do with the freefall speed of the collapse of the buildings, because when I gave him a theoretical scenario of the structures no longer having any inner or outer steel, he still could not agree with me that inertia was indeed on the scene that day. So I'm rather confused on whether this debate should go forward or not anymore. I'll leave this post at the top till he can explain to me why inertia did not work that day... or that it did, but just not with the structure. Maybe it has something to do with exploding concrete, aliens, or a 140 mph ~downburst~. ~shrug~ Christ wept.. and we are supposed to be the irrational ones? Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 10:33 Let me try to clarify. If you look at the evidence, the visual evidence of the collapse, the floors above the impact floors began to fall first. Look at that as one mass. I am not sure how many floors that was or what the ratio of that mass would be to a single floor, but can we agree that it would be substantial? As that mass hit each floor, the simple equation for momentum would indicate that each floor would have virtual no impact on changing the momentum of the huge upper mass. It would be like watching a head on collision between a fully loaded tractor trailer and a kid on a bicycle. This only pertains to the floors and not the structure. So while the pancake theory obviously does not explain the reason for the initial collapse, it can at least offer a possibility for why the floors fell at near free fall speed. Have I made a mistake yet? Also, can you please confirm or correct my assumptions regarding the structure below? WAHOR!! for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 11:31 Again, we have taken the ENTIRE support system of the structures out of the equation for this example. A reasonable person can probably rightly say that the support structures would provide increased resistance. However, since I'm aware at this point that bringing that up would mean a 1.7 year debate on the type of rivets used, the welding techniques in 1974, the coating on the steel structures, whether a worker named Joe did not use an applicable heatsink on a beam on the 37th floor because he was getting a divorce, etc, etc, ad nauseum, we have been nice enough to not add them to the equation. SoOo.. you are saying now that the pancake theory is what you are going by? Fine. Can you explain why inertia did not work that day for the three structures? After all, something here does not compute. Either the mainstream media and the witnesses were wrong on the time they took to collapse (and have doctored all the footage) or your pancake theory does not work. So which fruitloop are we going to next... since you can't just come out and say that the official theory does not work in reality... were all the films and witnesses wrong and the buildings collapsed slower... or did the buildings collapse at the speeds they were reported, so the pancake theory cannot work? Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 12:53 Do know where the weakest point of a bar joist is with respect to a downward load? According to the NIST report, the lower ends of the joists were not fastened, they had dampeners and were permitted to float. Is this correct? for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 13:41 Can you never answer a simple fucking question? We've taken ALL the structural members out for this question to you, so asking about the weakest point of a bar joist is is about as meaningless as asking what color panties Guiliani responded in. 110 floors... magically suspended for you. Concrete and steel. Now, can you honestly tell me that you believe that the structure we are talking about fell at freefall speed? I'm not taking the structural steel into the equation but as dead weight. I'm not even throwing in wind resistance, which actually plays a good part when you've a multiton thousands of square foot FLAT surface falling downwards. You are telling me that you believe that this imaginary structure, set up specifically for you to TOTALLY optimize downward speed, collapsed in the timeframe noted by the media and everyone else that day? By the Pancake Theory... the upper section of floors falling on the lower 110. Yes or No. If I can't get a simple yes or no out of you after asking the same damn question multiple times over two separate days, then quite frankly I'm done with you. I'm not going to debate someone who does not believe in gravity or Newton's Law. That, Rhino, would just make you someone that is not thinking rationally... not someone I could possibly take seriously. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:10 The bar joist were only structural in nature to hold up each floor and to tie the inner core to the out core. They were only designed to handle the verticle loads of each individual floor. Is this not correct? To answer the question, yes I think that the pancake theory is a sound one when discussing the collapse of the non-structural elements. In other words, obviously, the inner core and the outer tube could not pancake. Is this clear or do I need to try again? WAHOR!! for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 17:15 So you think that the pancake theory is sound. I'm done here then... I cannot debate someone that does not believe in physical laws. For the record, as I get my ass off this thread, the way to make the magical structure we're talking about collapse at near freefall speed is to ensure that the lower 110 floors were ALSO in the midst of going downwards at the same time, thus negating thier natural "standing" inertia. To do that, you would have to cut support at the base of the structures, allowing the floors to start thier descent as the upper floors collapsed on them. Of course, that does not help your theory at all, since you still believe that the aircraft crashing into the buildings have something to do with it. And I guess we will chalk up WC7 to exploding concrete. If the aircraft were capable of doing that, then we wouldn't be having this irrational discussion. A strong wind would have blown the structures down years ago. In closing, this is possibly the silliest attempt I have ever made to talk sense into someone that doesn't appear to possess any. Wish you luck on your endeavors, but thank you for taking the time to totally discredit yourself to anyone who reads this post. :) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for orabox - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 20:10 Ah-Ha for Khomar - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 20:20 for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 19:04 Depending on how the floors failed, it is possible that they fell at near free fall speeds. Sorry you do not see this. If you wish to discuss this further you know where to find me. I do truely wish this was as constructive for others as it was for me. I will be willing to discuss forever. Godspeed everyone. WAHOR!! for oruval - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 16:34 Welp that about sums it up for me people. Not that I already knew it, but, Rhino is nothing but a paid disinfo scumbag and it shows. The devils in the details... and boy is their details aplenty! Devon at no point whatsoever should you delete this post, I will use it for future refernce to Roast Rhino's ass on the Daily Paul when he starts his bullshit overthere. I can't wait for his reply to this... Maybe I'll get prayer maybe I'll get whining... but thier is one thing for sure I will not get and that is an honest answer out of Rhino..lol No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for brightdRRkness - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 13:01 For oruval - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 13:10 No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for brightdRRkness - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 13:15 For Khomar - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 11:19 It simply does not add up. Rhino, please, you are not going to be changing anyone's mind here to abandon the thought that 9/11 was a conspiracy. If that is your aim, then you are wasting your time. You said below that you do not think we should talk about 9/11 with others as it will "marginalize" you. If that is the case, why are you even discussing it here? State plainly and clearly: what is your purpose in this thread? What is it that you are trying accomplish? If you cannot answer this question clearly and in such a way as to convince us why we should continue to entertain this debate, then I suggest this thread be finished. for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 12:28 Also each floor becomes lighter and lighter in relative terms as the falling mass grows in size and speed. WAHOR!! for Thomas (not verified) - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:54 Rhino, it seems like your brain is getting lighter and lighter and your in danger of it floating away. Maybe a helmet would help you from not losing it. For oruval - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 12:33 No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. For Khomar - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 12:35 For Khomar - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 12:32 For Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 12:38 Why do you dismiss this as not being logical or rational. Why are my figures that I pulled out of my ass less likely than the figures that you pulled out of your ass. Sorry for the language. WAHOR!!! For oruval - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 12:45 Video to explain this a little better for oruval - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:45 Video to explain this a little better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VfvqO4wVLM for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 13:43 Because freedom is important to me and the fight for freedom will be much longer with such side issues as these. All I have ever wanted was for people to be clear when they are speculating and to not speak of speculation as truth. The inside jobbers will slow the freedom movement. That is it in a nutshell. WAHOR!! for brightdRRkness - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:44 9/11 and its aftermath has been the direct driving force for our foreign policy and the loss of our freedoms since that day. The death of millions of people is a "side issue"? The tearing apart of countless families is a "side issue"? The loss of liberties is a "side issue"? No this is THE issue. THE MAIN ISSUE! for Gil - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:09 I was the first to reply to your post by agreeing with you that some "truthers" talk out of their asses and do a disservice to the freedom movement. By the same token, people who want to limit the discussion of what really happened on 9/11 to obscure internet forums also do a disservice to the freedom movement. If things proceed the way you're describing, the freedom movement will go nowhere because the issue of denial is not being addressed. Our government was hijacked by a crime family a long time ago, and by trying to suppress the discussion of 9/11 truth, you and others like you enable them. If we turn and face our problems, they can be overcome. If we try to distance ourselves from them, they will eventually catch up and destroy us. for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:20 Just wish people would clarify what is speculation and what is fact. Go through my history at dailypaul. This is all I have ever requested. I have never poo poo your ideas other than to say that the inside job theory is possible, but highly unlikely. WAHOR!! for oruval - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:21 No it's not highly unlikely? IT HAPPENED. You cannot break the Laws of Physics. You did not directly address the questions that Devon brought forth and their is no other explanations other than the use of controlled demolitions to remove the floors at the rate of free fall. you are wrong. No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:30 Having said that, I will do as you wish. WAHOR!! for oruval - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:35 No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for Gil - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:20 for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:25 WAHOR!! for oruval - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:27 No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for Khomar - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:12 Scott, your name was Scott right? Know that you are a waste of human space so stop wasting my air. And for your information the inside jobbers as you so nicely put it will accelerate the freedom movement far faster than your alleged "collapsed steel framed buildings that didn't use demolitions" And btw Devon wasn't speculating he was debating truth. You however were dodging the absolute truth of laws of Physics. Scott You are aiding and abetting the elements of the government that caused 9/11 plain and simple. Your time will come soon enough. The first step starts Friday with Dennis K. No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:18 WAHOR!! for oruval - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 14:47 That fact alone should make you more upset with the Government Coverup. No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for Khomar - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 13:54 I can say with a great deal of confidence that everyone here is also just as committed to fighting for freedom and truth as you are. However, most of us see 9/11 as a critical turning point in our nation's history, and if this event was actually orchestrated by certain members of our government, it casts an entirely different light on the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, the PATRIOT Act, Homeland Security, and a host of additional government programs and bills passed since that date. The ramifications are huge, and there are certainly many indications that this is, in fact, what happened. It is not necessarily conclusive, but there is enough evidence to warrant a full investigation. A crime of this magnitude simply cannot be ignored in a free society. I understand your concern about marginalizing ourselves, but the fact is that Ron Paul's entire message is marginalized daily by the media and our government as they continue to spread disinformation and lies. The very concepts of non-interventionism and sound fiscal policies are considered lunacy by many deluded people across the country. Even the fight for civil liberties is considered "insane" and "naive" despite the fact that we are opening the door to despotism. If you do not believe in this particular front of the war, perhaps you should seek an avenue upon which you agree and concentrate your efforts there. We all have our roles, as you are so fond of saying. Perhaps it is the role of those here to shine a light on dark areas to try to expose the wolves that live among us. Consider that only when truth reigns supreme can freedom live. We are simply trying to expose lies and deception. That is our role. What is your role? for oruval - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 13:40 No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for Thomas (not verified) - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 13:17 for Grammy - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:41 for Bluemoon - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:44 for Grammy - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:46 for Bluemoon - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:51 for Gil - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:43 for krmaya2 - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:36 for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 01:03 This is not for the squeamish! However this, to me, is a form of entertainment. To each thier own.. ;) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for stick - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:56 if i wrote this it would have definitely included gratuitous use of the Beaver. for Bluemoon - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:58 Same thing right? for stick - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 01:00 for see-thru (not verified) - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:52 this is fun for wally. ya.. i know.. i don't get it. lol! for see-thru (not verified) - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:43 for Rhino - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:21 I will concede that it is highly unlikely that the pancake theory initiated the collapse. I am not willing to concede that pancaking did not attribute to the speed of the collapse. Having said that, let us get beyond the pancake theory so that we can discuss the possibilities of the cause of the collapse. Please confirm or correct the following assumptions: 1. The inner core consisted of vertical columns of re-enforced concrete. WAHOR!! for stick - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:31 SWITCH for Devon_Saunders - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:49 Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Bluemoon - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:54 for oruval - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:33 No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for Bluemoon - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:36 for krmaya2 - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:39 for stick - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:41 for oruval - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:46 No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for Bluemoon - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:50 for oruval - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:54 No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for krmaya2 - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:49 for oruval - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:39 No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for see-thru (not verified) - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:39 for devourerofsouls - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:44 ________________________ Get in line. No pushing. No shoving. All souls taken in the order in which they were received. Thank you. for see-thru (not verified) - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:45 ~whew~ i'm alright now. years added to my life from that burst of joy! for devourerofsouls - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:47 Get in line. No pushing. No shoving. All souls taken in the order in which they were received. Thank you. for Devon_Saunders - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:26 You can't really have it both ways, you know. Inertia and gravity either worked in that location that day, or they did not. I'm sorry... I was aware that math wasn't your favorite thing... but do we need a refresher on Inertia? Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:31 No, I am quite sufficient in math. And I will concede that pancaking did not initiate the collapse. Can you confirm or correct the above assumptions? WAHOR!! for Devon_Saunders - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:40 Are you saying that although INITIALLY the upper floors did not contribute to the speed of the collapse, that the downward force of the upper floors made the other floors fall at freefall speed? Screw the structure at this point.. let us say that ALL the lower floors were connected to NOTHING... they were floating in midair, not supported by anything but imagination. SoOo.. the downward force of the upper floors collapsing made the lower floors, on contact with the upper floors, assume thier ENTIRE downward force? Because that would be the only way they could achieve freefall speed. With the pancake theory, anyways. Hint: Newton's Law... the second part. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:51 Can you confirm or correct the above assumptions. WAHOR!! for Devon_Saunders - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:55 Do you understand inertia. Yes, or no? Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:59 Please confirm or correct my assumptions. WAHOR!! for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:06 SoOo.. again, are you saying, that with ALL the lower floors of the Twin Trade Towers, (magically suspended in midair for this example), when they were hit by a downward force from above them (keep in mind, these magically floating floors are HEAVY) assumed the full motive force and direction of the debris that was falling? I don't even have to go off of irrational truther youtube videos for this.. your own mainstream media reported the speed that the structures fell. You just told me that you understood inertia. Prove it with your reply, please.. because this is just getting silly. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:11 If you wish to lead me then so be it, I will follow. WAHOR!! for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:19 Don't EVER assume, btw.. just a friendly reminder. It could make you think funny. ~sigh~ Were the laws of gravity and inertia in effect that day, or not? I would have thought that a "rational thinker" could answer this pretty easily. That you cannot is making me shuffle you over in my head as someone who is suddenly having irrational thoughts... I do not debate someone on whether red is red, or red is blue. That path leads to insanity. And is pretty nonproductive. :) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:30 Can you confirm or correct my assumptions? I too will settle for a yes or no answer. WAHOR!! for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:39 SoOo.. are you finally saying that not only does the pancake theory not explain the initial collapse, it also does not support the speed at which the structures fell? This is point three.. if you get beyond this, then certainly we can debate structural elements. Structural elements are just not needed for this point.. so stop blowing smoke up my ass. This is just basic physical laws, after all. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:46 I do not mean to sidestep. I was simply trying to figure out the structure components. But I am willing to do it your way. I am done for tonight. God bless. And Godspeed. WAHOR!! for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:54 If you cannot comprehend basic physical laws and motive force, then I have no idea how we are going to have a debate. I think.. I'm going to just leave this thread alone until you either find a teaching coach, a therapist, something. Because if you honestly believe that the pancake theory works, even with me in this debate excluding the inner and outer steelwork, then I've no idea where to go from here. I cannot debate someone that does not believe in gravity, after all. It just makes no sense to do so. That person, by any definition, would be highly irrational. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for stick - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:57 for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 00:59 Don't worry.. like every other single tiny bit of this debate, eventually, we will get him over the hump. :) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for stick - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 01:00 for Devon_Saunders - Wed, 07/23/2008 - 01:07 for oruval - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 22:50 for Devon_Saunders - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:09 As per the OP, youtube videos are, by thier very nature, suspect. Thus, they cannot be used to prove that the sky is blue, for instance. Thanks for the thought, but I'm pressing on solo... ;) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for oruval - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:21 Onward good man. I commend your effort. No one else can make you happy or unhappy. It is solely up to KAT. for Rhino - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 21:52 Can we continue now? Every time I posted anything greater than 6 sentences, I was not able to post. Has this been corrected? Let me know, so that we can continue. WAHOR!! for Devon_Saunders - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 22:23 You can either turn it back on, or simply click on the notification radio button when you post something.. that will give you a reply to your post only. No idea why you've posting issues.. nobody else does. Your session will timeout if you are typing a post for longer than I think 30 minutes tho... If you've an issue with that, COPY your long post before hitting the Save button as insurance. We were still on point 3... are you going with the pancake theory, or are we moving on? Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Devon_Saunders - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 22:40 Point 3 is a yes or no answer, really... was gravity and Newton's Laws in effect on that day in that location or not? A simple yes or no can get us to the next point. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 22:53 WAHOR!! for Devon_Saunders - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:00 Point three is the ~pancake theory~... you know, the ~official~ version of how the structures came down. You have commented on this thread that you have never before said you were a proponent of it... are you now? I just need to know if we are going to have to debate the theory. So yes or no ... it is a simple post for you, one would hope. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:10 Be patient and bear with me. I wish to take the long way to point three. WAHOR!! for Rhino - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 21:56 WAHOR!! for skeptic - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 22:03 You asked me to be more specific, so now with the "breakthrough" regarding your statement about your "areas of expertise", I guess I can. So, here's my more specific question: What is it about your areas of expertise that makes you have skepticism with regard to the "inside job theory"? Same as before, straight answer please. Not asking for complete theory or complete explanation about 9/11. Please just tell us briefly what makes you think inside job theory is improbable or unlikely. You don't seem to be getting anywhere going at this the other way, so maybe this can be a starting point, eh? for Rhino - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 22:50 I have invented a new way to manufacture structural metal poles and hope to use this technology to further my long-range ideas of creating a new way of transportation. I can go into details about the manufacturing process, but anything else, I cannot. WAHOR! for skeptic - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:21 You have stated numerous times that you think the "inside job theory" is unlikely or improbable. I have asked you numerous times why you think this. You obviously have SOMETHING in mind that makes you say this. You asked me to be "more specific" with my question. You said yesterday, "I do have areas of expertise that lead me to some skepticism with regards to the "inside job theory." My "more specific" question to you is: What is it about your areas of expertise that makes you have skepticism with regard to the "inside job theory"? for Rhino - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:28 I can only do this one step at a time. Sorry this is not sufficient for you. WAHOR!! for skeptic - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 23:52 That might save some unnecessary steps by cutting right to the chase. Devon and others have provided a lot of information and you have come up with questions about everything, but never really seemed to zero in on anything as far as a direction to go. That was all I was hoping to accomplish with my question. for stick - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 20:32 Linking the hijackers to government credit cards and national security agencies Listen to the Jack Blood interview, it pretty much seals the deal. RHINO FOR GOD'S SAKE DO NOT CLICK ON THIS LINK!!! for Gil - Tue, 07/22/2008 - 11:25 These are very serious allegations that need ... This only increases the number of questions that I have. WAHOR!! for Devon_Saunders - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 20:34 Now be nice.. we were going off of how the structures fell ONLY on this one. Do NOT interject policical viewpoints or credit card trails on our hunt for sunshine! Erm... transparency. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for stick - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 20:38 And that is just one of the connections. There I just saved everybody any further trouble here for Devon_Saunders - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 20:43 Take the Twin Trade Towers and WC7 to the middle of a bigass football statium. Let nobody in but 2 planes. And we'll go from there. :) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for stick - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 20:48 Admission just $9.11 What is Vegas odds on that.. is exploding concrete considered legal in this one? I heard another rumour that the planes have special hardened aluminum ~carbon steel-cutting~ wings. This might be a great match! Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Devon_Saunders - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 20:16 I have to think that this point that we are going to spend a month talking about gravity and inertia. SoOo... because it is going to be asked, can someone google what Sir Issac Newton had in his right front pocket on the day he got konked with an apple. I'm also going to need a team of people to determine the exact TYPE of apple that he was hit on the head with, three people to comb the internet to determine whether or not he was on drugs at the time, and 1 single person to find out how many people have disproven Inertia. :) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Bluemoon - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 20:32 Newton's apple “ When Newton saw an apple fall, he found The Flower of Kent is a green variety of cooking apple. According to the story, this is the apple Isaac Newton saw falling to ground from its tree, inspiring his laws of universal gravitation. It is pear-shaped, mealy, and sub-acid, and of generally poor quality by today's standards. Despite the name, it is likely of French origin. for Devon_Saunders - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 20:38 YAY! 1 possible debate point plugged in.. grand work! Um.. was the story by an American.. or one of them funny Quaker guys? Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Bluemoon - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 20:55 Stukeley was a friend of Isaac Newton and wrote a memoir of his life (1752). Died March 3, 1765 Nationality English Fields archaeology Alma mater Known for Stonehenge Avebury for Devon_Saunders - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 21:04 This transparency thing is awesome! I'm still trying to envision driving a car if inertia is a big fat liberal lie tho. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Devon_Saunders - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 21:19 Sorry! I just thought I'd try the other side of the posting out. It's kinda fun! You don't have to think, have a theory of your own, nothing.. you just post negative shit and keep a smile on your face. This would have to get boring after awhile tho. Still trying to figure out what a car ride would be like with no intertia. The gas pedal position would be your speed, you go from 100 to 0 in 0.00 seconds when applying the brakes... would be kinda a trip.. ;) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Bluemoon - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 21:27 Fun maybe for a crash test dummy… sometimes you’re the bug… sometimes you’re the windshield… lol for stick - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 21:22 for Devon_Saunders - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 21:25 Unless the car had no inertia but you did.. which would suck. You would either be part of the trunk or part of the scenery in the front...lol. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for stick - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 20:27 Are we going to going off of the NIST report on the falling apple? We should also probably get someone to track down surviving eyewitnesses to the event. We cannot go into this based on speculation, we must make sure we are transparent with our investigation and pray and meditate that we uncover the truth. for Devon_Saunders - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 20:32 Well.. there will be no youtubes of the event, thank god. There will also be no surviving wintesses. So we'll just have to go by the stuff in the textbooks, which can be scary. You never know WHO wrote those textbooks, after all. And gravity is technically a theory, not a law.. so thus cannot be held as an actual TRUTH. Should be high times the next month or so... if my computer doesn't float off in a cloud of Rhino logic. :) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Devon_Saunders - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 19:23 Actually, I wouldn't really take free speech from the membership. Tho the signature block edit I personally think was inspired. :) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 00:55 I need the structural shell only. That is all I am asking for. I thought that you and stick were going off the NIST report, but it makes no matter to me. Give me a structure so that I can research it. WAHOR!! for Devon_Saunders - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 13:23 Since we seem to be past the first two points, we are on to the third one. I was going to assume that since you are smart enough to login and type then you are not a proponent of the ~pancake~ theory? Do we need to go through that, or can we call point three a given that the pancake theory is out the window and we can continue? Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 15:37 for Devon_Saunders - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 18:31 Pancake Theory, or as I lovingly call it, ~Dispensing with Reality to prove a Theory~. You a fan of it, or have you done the math and we can get on to the next point? Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... WAHOR!! for Rhino - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 19:10 for Devon_Saunders - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 19:18 We'll see where it goes. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Rhino - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 00:32 WAHOR!! for stick - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 00:33 I am waiting for Devon to convince me of his theory. WAHOR!! for Thomas (not verified) - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 12:56 WE NEED MORE INFO!!!! Spoonfeed me Devon I can't figure this out, my dendrites are encrusted with so much: pick one 1.Disinformation 2.Prozac 3.Valium 4.Flouride 5.Aspartame 6.MSM Programming 7.Mickey Mouse Club Reruns 8.THC 9.Lead 10. Shit for krmaya2 - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 13:03 for Thomas (not verified) - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 13:15 for krmaya2 - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 13:16 for Thomas (not verified) - Mon, 07/21/2008 - 13:26 So true.... and I was amazed to hear him do this "routine" sic (I wish there was a spell checker here). While I agree to a point I still think if push come to shove we are going to have a reckoning. |
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Hidden PlacesLife outside of the mainstream |
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