May 29 Thought... Religion The introduction

Submitted by Poca on Sun, 03/29/2009 - 04:47

Christianity

for General CT Devon_Saunders - Fri, 05/30/2008 - 01:36

The Introduction...

I have just typed this introduction 6 times.

The most taboo of subjects is religion, our belief system. By nature it is the core of what we are.. so it is a topic to be discussed with a certain delicacy, to put it mildly.

I have certain beliefs that I was raised to believe... I have not been let down by them so far in this life. This coming from someone who puts the acid test to everything... I am a skeptic.

However, I am being asked to speak about what I believe.. and why I've come to the conclusions that I have.

That isn't an easy thing to do, to be honest. It lays one open to the barbs and arrows of the people.. especially in this case, as it is the forum owner doing it.

It is also a real pain in the ass to do in this medium... online chat is not the best place to catch the nuances of a conversation.

However, if we are all going to be straight out about topics and you want to be able to see where it is that I come from, then I think that is, well, fair.

So the topic this weekend is my worldview.

Gods help us ... ;)

The results of this Thought are found in the thread here...

http://forums.libertylove.org/?q=node/254

skeptic - Thu, 06/05/2008 - 01:13
Devon, I'm so sorry. I only revived this because I wanted to know what you meant by "other yous" below.

I wasn't expecting this to be the religious battleground tonight. :(

"Darksucker" math and "bumblebee dynamics". Much more fun (and profound ~smile~) last night.

Khomar - Thu, 06/05/2008 - 10:42
I don't think you need to apologize. It did not seem like a "battleground" to me, and I apologize if that is the way I came across. I know that there are a lot of misconceptions about what Christianity is at times, and I simply was explaining what it is all about. I am not trying to argue anyone to Christianity, but I am willing to answer any questions people may have concerning it.

I think it is good to discuss ideas and philosophies as long as the discussion does not get heated and everyone stays committed to learning and understanding each other.

see-thru - Thu, 06/05/2008 - 12:43
hey khomar! it didn't seem like a battleground to me either! i LOVED your posts -- you have a fabulous knowledge base. i just grabbed one of the statements you said and 'ran with it'! lol!

skeptic - Thu, 06/05/2008 - 11:52
Wasn't just you. Look below, I was concerned it was getting a little tense. The discussion took a big turn from what I revived the thread for because of the other comments on here. I probably should have just taken my question and ran with it from another thread so the other stuff wouldn't be what was spotlighted.

You are absolutely right about it being good to discuss ideas and philosophies. Devon strongly encourages that here...to make people think :)

We're glad to have ya here. See ya round.

skeptic - Fri, 05/30/2008 - 03:17
Devon, in your reply to egoldstein in the first "thought for the night" you stated:

"That is what I would like this place to be... not a place to find the red pill, but a place to deal with it afterwards. You know as well as I do that after you've ~woken up~, per se, that the world is a whole different place... friends you have known for years suddenly seem stupid to you... the TV is now a bad place to go... sometimes you just want a place to go to where peopple understand where it is that you are coming from. That should be this place."

That said, I think the topic is definitely in order. I'm sure you'll handle it tastefully, as I've seen with everything else you post, here and on dailypaul. (If not, we can always flag away! ~just kidding~)

I stated on the giants/mounds topic that I believe in Jesus(Yahshua?). Not the same way as in the beginning, though. Not less, but definitely different than before. Not really sure how to describe that place I'm in. Well, yes I can: seeking. "Seek first the kingdom of God.." Yep, that's where I am, seeking.

I do not want to be deceived about anything anymore, especially religion/spiritual matters.

Thanks for being willing to share with us.

P.S. Thanks again for all the work you did with the bridge topic!

see-thru - Fri, 05/30/2008 - 13:24 "Seek first the kingdom of God.."

that's BEAUTIFUL.

that made me ponder, why the heck i ever went to rse in the first place. i was raised christian but when my dad died when i was 12, no one could answer my 'big' questions. why did he die? where did he go? why did god let that happen? why do good people die and bad people don't? ya know...BIG questions. they couldn't answer them so i stopped going to church.

i didn't believe in god again until my late teens. i still don't ... not in the usual sense. it wasn't till i read shirley maclaine's book 'out on a limb' that i thought maybe i was missing something.

ramtha talks about the kingdom of heaven. it is THE grid/matrix... it exists in us... this gets REALLY trippy. like..soooo trippy it...gives me an anxiety attack practically!

oh yes.. now i remember why i went to rse... i read his 'white book', beginners guide to creating reality, plane of bliss, and the mystery of birth and death. they made so much sense.. for me it was like a breath of fresh air.

the other reason is a little harder to explain...

have you heard about kundalini energy? i'll see if i can find a good picture of it.

it is energy that sits at the base of the spine in a coil shape.

crap.. i just noticed the time... i will do part ii later! :)
delete edit reply flag this skeptic - Fri, 05/30/2008 - 19:34 Thanks for the input. Actually I put the (?) just to draw attention to it. Found more reasons to believe he probably was called that instead of "Jesus". I've seen the spelling vary, but I opted to go with this because of God being called Yahwey and Yahshua meaning Yah's salvation.

Kundalini energy, as in serpent spirit?

I know there are religions that see the serpent as the good, but that's not where I'm at in my journey. Not consistent with the pieces of the puzzle I have come across so far. (Plenty of more pieces to find, though, that's for sure!)

I want truth no matter where it leads. It's great that we can get together here and learn from each other.

Khomar - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 21:49 Yeshua is the original name in Hebrew. It is translated as "Joshua" in the Old Testament from the original Hebrew. Jesus is the Greek form of Yeshua, and since most of the New Testament was written in Greek, the name Jesus is used. So Joshua from the Old Testament and Jesus had the same Hebrew name: Yeshua.

Jesus Christ is the full name with "Christ" being the Greek form of the Hebrew word "Mashiach" (which in English is "Messiah") or "the Anointed One." The Hebrew form of this title is "Yeshua Ha'Mashiach" or "Jesus the Messiah".

God actually has several names in the Old Testament, each signifying His various attributes. For example, Elohim is typically translated as God as is Yahweh, the official name used by the Jews. El Elyon is translated as Most High God (Elyon means "highest") and is used in conjunction with the Gentiles (non-Jews) to signify His preeminence over all people. Adoni is translated as "Lord" and is often used as Adoni Yahweh (Lord God) to signify his sovereignty. El Shaddai (Shaddai means "sufficient") is used to emphasize God's ability to provide. It is actually mistranslated as "God Almighty" when it should be "God All-Sufficient).

The form Yahweh was actually never supposed to be spoken by the Old Testament Jews to show reverence for God's name. Typically they would use Adoni instead and thereby imply "Adoni Yahweh" or Lord God.

Devon_Saunders - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 21:58
Good post!

It also shows pretty nicely the transition from polytheism to modern-day Christian monotheism. From many Gods to one God with a lot of different moods, for example.

I still think we are doing the same thing, however. Different religions focusing on a certain aspect of the same One.

An opinion.. ;)

Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind...

Khomar - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 22:13
While God had several names in the Old Testament, they were all understood to be speaking of the same person: God the creator. The various names were merely used to describe the essence of who He is and to emphasize a certain aspect of His character or being.
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
(Deu 6:4)

This was a strong concept from the very beginning of Judaism -- the idea of a single Creator God who is Lord over the universe.

Now, the existence of all of these names can lead to confusion about God. For example, the Christian church in the early 20th century (and before) focused heavily on God as the judge: the ruler of the universe, holy and perfect. Thus Christianity came to be a set of dos and don'ts with heavy emphasis on obedience and fear of judgment. The new trend, which was a backlash against the overly harsh views of the previous generations, is to focus on the verse in the New Testament that "God is love." The problem is that both are true at the same time. The Bible says that God is holy and just and that at the same time He is also loving and merciful. This is why He sent Jesus into the world and why Jesus had to be killed on the cross. God loved us so He wanted to save us, but his justice demanded that our sins be paid for. This is what Jesus did -- he paid the price for our sins, so that if we believe in Him and accept His payment for our sins, we can be free to live for and pursue the knowledge of God without the weight of our sin holding us back and separating us from God. This is the nuts and bolts of Christianity.

Devon_Saunders - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 22:31
True.. and I applaud you that you have taken the time to actually LEARN about your religion... so many have not.

That being said, I'm not Christian... so I'm not going to debate you on your beliefs.

For me, it is quite enough that you believe in something and seem to do it intellectually as well as spiritually.

The rest will sort itself out in due time, as do all things.. ;)

see-thru - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 22:31

"While God had several names in the Old Testament, they were all understood to be speaking of the same person"

sooooooo .... what happens if it turns out they all happen to be different entities? lol!

and what happens if jesus didn't die for anyone's sins? lol! what if he was just taking his last initiation (test/assay)? which we all know -- he passed. :)

what if he was just doing it to show us other mortals that ummmmm... you can be killed (the physical body can die) and then you can resurrect it?

i go to a school (that would be rse) where there are students who have already brought dead animals back to life.

you know -- miracles really aren't miracles -- it is just higher level physics. lol! :)

food for thought.

Devon_Saunders - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 22:35

We all have our beliefs.... ;)

We should all be allowed to believe whatever it is that we want, after all. One of the calling-cards of that thing called Liberty.

I can agree to disagree on something that calls for faith, because that is an individual thing for all of us.

I can also debunk every religion that I am aware of, including my own.

So it boils down to belief, does it not?

An ancestor of mine was quoted as saying "Belief is a funny thing.. you can not believe in the ocean, but you still get wet when you fall in."

Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind...

Prof de la Paz - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 22:41
Would be nice to have beliefs. Unfortunately, faith appears not to be volitional. Would love to believe I'm immortal, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

Congratulations to those, however, who have mastered the trick of believing in spite of the evidence. I'd love to join you.

see-thru - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 22:58
ah professor -- no trick. just hard work. you don't even need to believe it. you just practice a discipline (a technique) and just go for it. well... technically not hard either ... just need persistence. :)

Prof de la Paz - Thu, 06/05/2008 - 00:59
see-thru,
I am plenty disciplined, and have a clear ethical sense which guides me nicely. I simply have no fantastical illusions. If I could believe that the Legion of Super-Heroes could travel in their Time Bubble and transport me to the bright clean Thirtieth Century I would. It's a comforting notion, and no sillier than believing in Jesus, Jove, or Juju.

Of course, plenary theory doesn't rule out anything that isn't actually a contradiction, so I don't despair. Emotionally I remain unconvinced of my mortality, but intellectually I am unable to embrace any theism.

Pocahontas - Thu, 06/05/2008 - 01:05
Though alot of judgements tell me not to reply there is a strong notion to reply your religion is your center and is unquestioned!!!!!!!!!!

Eyes wide open!

Prof de la Paz - Thu, 06/05/2008 - 01:11
Other than my own existence (Cogito Ergo Sum), I tend to question everything, and accept nothing on faith. Even if Ol' Scratch were to appear to me and tell me things that only I or my dead friends can know I still could not rule out insanity.

Bluemoon - Thu, 06/05/2008 - 01:41
Sounds like we are sitting on the same park bench... Schooch over and make room for my invisible friend.

For Prof de la Paz - Thu, 06/05/2008 - 10:13
I'll scootch over a little, but I LIKE sitting close to pretty girls!

For Kat - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 22:56
?

For Devon_Saunders - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 22:52
Not having a religion I had thought was a belief system as well. After all, if you're going to say that you rise, you live, you fall and that is it, then I would think that you would make the most of what you have.. ;)

If you did that, I would think that you would like to better yourself and those around you.. possibly make a mark, as it were. And enjoy yourself doing it, as my signature suggests.

An opinion, as always.

Evidence is exactly that... an outward sign or indication.

There are always things that cannot be explained by evidence.

Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind...

For skeptic - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 22:55
Well said. :)

For skeptic - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 21:58
YHWY I seem to remember it being without our good ol' vowels. (My Yahwe'y' above was a typo. I was going for Yahweh.)

Thanks.

For Khomar - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 22:15
That is correct. Even the name "Yahweh" is a best guess at how the name would have been pronounced.

For Kat - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 22:17 ?

For see-thru (not verified) - Fri, 05/30/2008 - 21:07 ooooh this is fabulous!! you're reading my mind now.. or maybe me yours.. whatever.. when i looked up the name for jesus, i also ran into another god's name who fought jehovah. i think it was yahway-- but i don't think it was spelled that way.. i will be home saturday.. i will look it up.

it is another really trippy story. he fought jehovah and lost, i do believe.

my understanding is that they call it 'serpent energy' because it moves kind of like a snake. there are some good books out of the east but the stuff from the west is mostly crap... too much fear/distrust/superstition around it. :(

not too mention that it is really empowering for women... and by god.. can't have that! lol!

anyways i'm ranting...

when i started practicing raising my kundalini energy it was using a light breath technique and visualization and i used it to fill my cells with vital energy (actually it would better to state it-- i am awakening/activating the vital energy in my cells that is just sitting dormant). i also do this often when doing healing work. it is a higher frequency than reiki so it works faster.

well some of the side effects i had in practicing that technique was becoming aware of various sensations in my body ... at the start it just felt like champagne bubbles moving through my body -- up and down my arms and legs and spine. after a couple months that evolved into this other sensation washing over my being and up over my head and i can only describe it as bliss. (our holy spirit (?) now, when you get your brain into that state you can do stuff faster (heal, manifest an item/experience) -- you just have to keep it in your focus for a few minutes or a few hours.

well--how this connects to ramtha is... when i would sit down to read his books the 'champagne bubbles' would start to vibrate in my body.. very trippy. took me MONTHS to get used to it... but i would refer to ramtha books as 'alive' and normal books as well.. just blah to read! ramtha can put his frequency in everything and it lasts forever, i imagine and i've somehow developed a sensitivity/ability to feeling frequency levels in my body.

anyways... that is how i know we all have the kingdom of heaven in us and we all have the ability to access it. i just don't normally think in terms of 'the kingdom of heaven' cause its all 'flowery/pretty/sacred'!! lol!

i have a couple of friends that talk that way and it is beautiful. it annoys me in a way because it makes me all mushy in my heart seal! (rolling my eyes) lol! :)

c&e is an intense technique to raise the kundalini. there is no messing around.. no sitting on the fence with that technique!! lol. the side effects are just as intense.

as you push the energy up your spine it weaves around each seal. (it weaves up the spine and around each seal -- imagine the dna helix shape--that is what it looks like.) as it moves up the seals, it also ionizes the spinal fluid.

as it moves around each seal it raises the frequency of the cells in that area and the corresponding gland in our endocrine system. the side effects of that are just lovely -- think of a cold with intense mucus clearing. when i started clearing my throat seal - i coughed a lot and my voice changed, (more confident sounding), at my sixth seal - i had a ton of ear wax draining for soooo long --yeah..NOT classy. ram calls it the 'dross' is clearing out of the physical body.

once the energy hits the brain it activates the really cool glands -- well i shouldn't say that-- the heart seal activates the thymis --that has anti-aging properties so that is cool, and the throat seal (thyroid) manages metabolism (wahoo!) and at the sixth seal i got more psychic. that was a little trippy to get used to. that combined with practicing remote viewing ... i can now find stuff i lose more easily. lol! that's a yummy side effect.

anyways... i have NO idea where i was going with that. LOL!

catch ya later.

For skeptic - Fri, 05/30/2008 - 22:26 Funny you should mention the champagne bubbly feeling...

Have you ever fasted? Similar feeling sometimes.

While not intended as a fast, even this week I have not eaten much and being here a lot late this whole week, I haven't had near enough sleep.

I told Peg I felt like I had some kind of high the other day after all the boatload of awesome discussions. Well, with little food and little sleep the days since, that feeling has continued..all week.

I've NEVER felt it like that before for an extended time. It's a funny tingly sensation and all over.

Really strange that you should mention it.

P.S. I'm sure when the events schedule goes up, things will get to some kind of normal. As, I'm sure none of us want to live on the computer all the time.
delete edit reply flag this see-thru (not verified) - Fri, 05/30/2008 - 13:09 i looked it up for us. Jesus (Yeshua ben Joseph) Ramtha calls him that, following the Jewish traditions of that time.

For Bluemoon - Fri, 05/30/2008 - 01:53 Not so Taboo, now that I am a recovering Catholic… my mind is wide open. I am always searching for information on what people believe. Sometimes we have to go to the back end of an animal so to speak to confirm what sex it is. We should not be disgusted or ashamed by what we learn or believe, we should embrace it for what it is. Come on weekend! This is gonna be good stuff!

For see-thru (not verified) - Fri, 05/30/2008 - 01:45 NICE. i am SOOOOOOO looking forward to it. i will contemplate it and write something out as well.

HEY..your truth as you see it now, is your truth. that's cool.

this isn't the perfect medium... but we're all doing pretty good so far.

For Devon_Saunders - Fri, 05/30/2008 - 01:56
The real kicker...

It's all the same truth anyways.

Bluemoon used a certain analogy... that is also used as a parable in another religion. The 4 blind men and the elephant. Each felt a certain part of the elephant and described what it was.

They were all correct in what they felt.

But none of them described the elephant.

Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind...

For see-thru (not verified) - Fri, 05/30/2008 - 02:09 hmmm. will contemplate that.

oh and hey... i agree.. perception is reality. i reasoned that by-- our perception is ultimately created by our thoughts so of course it creates reality or perpetuates it.

oh and good on you for going with the flow with your unexpected visitors... that is a sign of an 'oily' brain. that kind of mental flexibility is a characteristic needed to go to 2013 and beyond.

i'm still really, really working on that. i've made progress on being okay with surprises. can you believe 'surprises' used to piss me off?!! i actually got so stressed out my back or stomach would hurt. now i just gotta work on embracing adventure! that which doesn't change and evolve is doomed to age and die. :(

For Devon_Saunders - Fri, 05/30/2008 - 02:15
To throw you a playful curveball as I run out the door then....

If reality is what you perceive it to be, then there are multiple realities, by definition.

Others perceive different things, after all.

Not to mention your ~junction points~ in your life... the decisions you could have made differently.

There are other yous out there that made the other choice.

Not stuff for this weekend, but something to think about!

~strolls out the door~

Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind...

For skeptic - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 20:51 The suspense has been killing me. What did you mean by this?

"There are other yous out there that made the other choice."

For Devon_Saunders - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 21:05
Remember when I said math was merely a language? Quantum mechanics is a subset of that language.

If the language is correct, then there are multiple universes... every decision you make splits off another you.

I hate to wiki a topic like this, but here is a starting point...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_(science)

The funny part I found about it is that it's really close to what some Native American cultures have believed for a long LONG time.

Loosly translated, they believe in a tapestry... we are all a part of it, but the junctions in it is where your personal thread goes one way or the other, a decision you have made that spins off two seperate threads. So there are a lot of possible ~yous~ out there, all still connected, all still a part of everything.

The real curveball is when you realize that there are levels above and below the tapestry. That and figuring out if it is possible to reach another level, thus being able to look down at your thread (or anothers) to see where it is heading... ;)

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May 29 Thought... Religion The introduction

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