 for Devon_Saunders - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 21:10 Here is the slowest realtime vid I found... For for Hobbit - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 01:42 Since this event was declared an accident due to a structural flaw I have not given it much thought. In Mass we have bridges that are build the same way except that ours have riveted joints whereas the Minn bridge had welded joints--All bridges in Mass built the same way were inspected after the collapse and that was the conclusion from their findings. However, it does seem suspicious given the relative proximity to the Republican National Convention. This is related to a question that is in the back of my mind that I can not help but ask, if Bush delcares Marshall Law, are we stuck with him? for Hobbit - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 01:42 Since this event was declared an accident due to a structural flaw I have not given it much thought. In Mass we have bridges that are build the same way except that ours have riveted joints whereas the Minn bridge had welded joints--All bridges in Mass built the same way were inspected after the collapse and that was the conclusion from their findings. However, it does seem suspicious given the relative proximity to the Republican National Convention. This is related to a question that is in the back of my mind that I can not help but ask, if Bush delcares Marshall Law, are we stuck with him? Hobbit - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 01:42 Since this event was declared an accident due to a structural flaw I have not given it much thought. In Mass we have bridges that are build the same way except that ours have riveted joints whereas the Minn bridge had welded joints--All bridges in Mass built the same way were inspected after the collapse and that was the conclusion from their findings. However, it does seem suspicious given the relative proximity to the Republican National Convention. This is related to a question that is in the back of my mind that I can not help but ask, if Bush delcares Marshall Law, are we stuck with him? for chiefronpaul - Wed, 06/04/2008 - 00:24 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=debgoWX1tLU Simon & Garfunkel I will see you on the other side. for Jen - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 22:26 For anybody who's interested in the coverage the Minneapolis Star Tribune has been providing, check out this link to their special section devoted to the collapse: http://www.startribune.com/projects/11608881.html?location_refer=Homepage Perhaps this will answer SOME questions you may have. for Devon_Saunders - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 22:36 Thanks Jen! I was thinking a minute ago that we should start up a CT-Buster section here.. then realized that it's right here and we're already using it.. ;) Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Jen - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 22:41 No problem! And I'm just gonna toss this out there, but I personally don't think that there was anything conspiratorial going on with the bridge collapse. Having said that, there was an article in the Star Tribune just in the past week or so (it's probably in that link by now) about how another similar bridge collapsed in a similar way in OH several years back. People at MNDOT were made aware of the problems with the gussets at that time, and now they're trying to determine who knew what when. Deliberate destruction? I don't think so. Inefficient bureocracy - absolutely. Somebody asked about the political climate at the time - it made me think of Paul Wellstone's (D-MN) death in a plane crash a few years back. It had been out of my mind until I read "Crossing the Rubicon" which attempts to outline what amounts to ... well, an assassination. Ok - I'm off-topic now ... LOL for Devon_Saunders - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 22:48 No real off topic here.. who knows what dots we can connect as we go... ;) I'm voting for inefficiency at this point.. criminal neglect possible. The other options seem to be the Russians using a new weapon, the government using a new weapon, planet X, them pesky terrorists, global warming and a black-flag op for more tax increases. I just can't really get behind any of those, at this time. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for chiefronpaul - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 22:56 What about the Neocons http://aim.search.aol.com/search/redir?src=websearch&requestId=d54fae988... I will see you on the other side. for Devon_Saunders - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 23:04 I know that the disaster was used in certain states to champion higher taxes (or fees) for infrastructure.... But that's what a politician does... use something bad to make a buck. (Excuse me, an INDIRECT buck... lol) I just find it hard to rock-solid state that the bridge would have been brought down for that. My opinion as an engineer is that it was falling down anyways. It could have been helped... I just have no solid info on that. Unlike ~does kerosin burn at 7000 degrees celcius,~ or something. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for see-thru (not verified) - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 23:07 "Unlike ~does kerosin burn at 7000 degrees celcius,~ or something. :) for Devon_Saunders - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 21:32 OK... all I can really dig up so far is that some people thought that the bridge was taken out intentionally because it was on the NAFTA superhighway planned route? Which makes no sense to me.. what are we proving/disproving? You're going to have to give me something to either debunk or think about here... another 20 minutes on the calcs, but if I use reconstructed calcs then the bridge was falling down 20 years ago, before they started patching it. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for skeptic - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 21:55 I'm not postulating a theory. I just thought it strange, as I mentioned in the other post, that if bridges are done in sections, and a big barge can plow into a bridge and only that particular section falls out, why would the whole bridge fall in. Was there any evidence of hanky panky, such as people hearing explosions, or finding anything in the rubble that would be indicate demolition? for Devon_Saunders - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 22:07 Ok... fist off, bridge construction is not my forte.. I've done some work on them, but it is not what I really do. I CAN understand the concepts between different bridge types, materials used, stresses involved and can factor in materials, decay rates, etc. It's hard to be perfect on this for a few reasons... first, I'm working off of two different sets of reconstructed calcs and the origional calcs, so I feel I've got good info. What I cannot factor in is loads given the structure on reconstruction of the surface part of the bridge. I also cannot with any good faith factor in the effect of contaminants on material decay.. simply because it is a coin flip. Some materials used to de-ice bridges, for instance, will decay the actual structure at a much faster rate than just normal weather and wear and tear. I also cannot factor in average load over time right now, because I do not have the information on the average and/or peak traffic. All THAT out of the way, this bridge was a simple center-supported deck structure. The entire bridge did not collapse.. only half of it, from what I've been able to see. So from inception incline to center, it fell down. Based on the calcs I've run, at least 3 of the gussets were woefully underbuilt for any kind of sustained carrying structure. These were the ones (U12, U9, U11) that sheared under a heavy traffic load. In layman's terms, the damn things were too thin. So they were stressed for too long, went out of thier perameters, and broke. I can honestly believe that it could have just happened. The timing is a little odd politically, however. It could have been easy to give it a push, as it were. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for Devon_Saunders - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 22:32 I would say personally that time and fatigue did it... it would be very hard to disprove this, even if I was playing my own devil's advocate. As for the other stuff, a politician cashing in on a tragedy? Not exactly a shocker...lol. To be honest folks, on this one I'd have to have something a LOT more concrete offered to not call this just an accident whos time had come. I looked up the top 10 conspiracies about the collapse earlier... you have to really suspend reason to get into any of them. A lot of our highway infrastructure sucks right now... too much money is being spent rebuilding bridges in Iraq. And we always come back to that, don't we. Live life to its fullest... with open arms, an open heart and most importantly, an open mind... for chiefronpaul - Thu, 05/29/2008 - 22:43 Salt, Thats my bet. I will see you on the other side. |
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